Digger
talks to John at Tortoys
TORTOYS
VINTAGE DIECAST and COLLECTORS' TOYS
Digger: Hello
John, it’s David at Retrosellers.com
John:
Hi David. Thank you for ringing.
Digger:
That’s alright. I’m assuming the Christmas rush has
started for you?
John:
Yes, we’re busy, busy, busy.
Digger:
I’ll crack on with the questions then. What's you background
and how did Tortoys come about?
John:
My background – I’m 53…
Digger:
The same as me.
John:
... I have trouble remembering my own age...
Digger:
The same as me!
John:
... I say that so you get an idea of where I’m coming from
in my interest for old toys. When I was a little kid I used
to play a lot with Matchbox toys and used to collect them
avidly. I had a huge collection which I got rid of
unfortunately.
Digger:
It’s a common tale isn’t it? It’s a shame they all got
lost.
John:
Particularly the boxes that collectors value very much. But
my background more recently is in sales. I was actually
sales and marketing manager for a computer company for 25
years or so. I was with a number of companies – one called
Channel Business Systems, who got taken over and who were a
small software house that used to supply EPOS and Retail
Stock Control Systems and there’s a bit of a relevance to
what I do now. We also latterly supplied things like
web-based sales programmes so I have a background in stock
management and small business accounting and web design.
Digger:
Oh! That’s all very handy.
John:
Yes, it works rather nicely.
Digger:
I have a theory that sometimes all of these things end up
coming together and give you a platform to do something new
and suddenly it all makes sense.
John:
So, I hated the job, liked the money (Digger laughs) and
used it to learn a lot about what I wanted to do in the
future. And I always had an ambition to have my own business
on some level. And since 2006 I threw that career away
because I hated it and had paid my mortgage off and I’m
now, believe it or not, a Youth Justice Worker with the
Youth Offending Team in Somerset.
Which is completely different, but along with the
interest in old toys and computers and things, I’ve also
done quite a lot of work over the years with young people.
I’ve been with the Scout Movement for fifteen years –
I’m a Group Scout Leader, so that’s another angle I’m
coming from. Most of my work’s with young people nowadays
and I’m a director of the YMCA in Bridgwater as well.
Digger:
I’m just wondering when you get any spare time to breathe?
John:
I don’t.
Digger:
And Tortoys is getting bigger and bigger, is it?
John:
Yes, it doubled its turnover last year, from microscopic to
twice microscopic – if I gave up my day job and gave up
all my time to that it would be a lot bigger very suddenly.
I’m only limited by the number of hours in the day. Having
the time to take photographs of the stock to be brutally
honest.
Digger:
Obviously once you’ve got the photographs up on the site
then people want them?
John:
That’s right, yes, and I’ve got a lot of stuff waiting
to be photographed and that’s my glass ceiling at the
moment. Hours in the day to do things and, of course, I’m
rubbish at delegating so I can’t get anybody else to do
it. But there you are.
Digger:
That’s my struggle too. I could do twice as well but
there’s only me and there’s only so many hours in the
day. Nobody else is going to do it.
John:
Fate might take a hand in the new financial year and
I might be a victim of the local authority cuts so I’ll
suddenly find myself doing this full-time.
Digger:
In a way I hope that happens (John laughs) because I’ve
spoken to so many people who have left a job they don’t
really like and gone into what they love full-time and
it’s really worked for them. They’ve made that jump for
one reason or another and it’s always worked.
John:
My cunning plan is that if I can do a phased retirement, as
long as I can see the screen and type on the keyboard, I can
carry on running this business until I drop.
Digger:
I hope you can. Do you wear glasses now?
John:
Oh yes, I’m leaning closer and closer in order to read
things. When looking at CDs I go by the colour of the spine
now, reading them is right out! (Digger laughs)
Digger:
I call myself the Pinball Wizard. I can tell what things are
by touch and smell rather than seeing them these days.
John:
My arms aren’t long enough to read generally if I
haven’t got my glasses. I can see things in the distance.
Digger:
On the bright side, 150 years ago we’d be dead John.
John:
That’s true.
Digger:
So do children today appreciate die cast toys or as these
mainly for the older children among us?
John:
I think they don’t appreciate them. Children these days
don’t buy that sort of thing. They don’t buy toys really
- toys tend to be sold to parents who buy them for young
children. Once you get to seven or eight you start spending
your money on fashion and music and entertainment. That’s
where the young people’s spend goes and that’s why toy
shops all over the land are closing. Toy shop branches and
all the rest of it disappearing overnight.
Digger:
I can remember the thrill of going to the local toy shop –
my favourites were a fort, a garage and a farm with all the
animals and buildings. I loved those toys and played with
them all the time.
John:
You do occasionally get young people who are interested but
it’s because their parents are interested and involve them
with it. They’re looking at it almost from an academic
point of view, a collector’s point of view rather than for
playing with them.
Digger:
Like the sorts of precocious kids you might see on the
Junior Antiques Roadshow?
John:
That’s right yes. So I had a hunch that these things might
be valuable in years to come and I did keep a few when I was
a bit older, the ones that I had.
Digger:
So how are you sourcing these items? You said you have more
than you can photograph so where are they coming from?
John:
I’m in the lucky position that people contact me. Yes,
they see the website and they say “I’ve got one of those
in the attic” and they dig them out. And it’s usually
because they’d like them to go to a good home and they’d
like a bit of money. I hadn’t anticipated this and I
thought I’d be out and about trying to buy items, but
it’s very interesting that frankly I don’t need to and
it all comes to me. Occasionally I buy something on eBay if
it’s particularly juicy. It’s because people of my sort
of age just remember what they’ve got and it’s usually
at this time of year leading up to Christmas and they start
buying for their own kids or grandchildren. They start
thinking “Oh, toys aren’t what they used to be. I
remember when I had… Oh, I’ve got that upstairs.” And
that’s the sort of thought process.
Digger:
Are these items turning up in a good condition?
John:
It varies a lot. One of my points of difference, because
there are one or two other people doing similar things on
The Internet, is that I don’t just sell the pristine
condition items.
Digger:
You obviously specify that they’re not ‘mint’.
John:
The pristine ones cost the earth – they fetch very large
amounts of money and people do specialise in them. There are
some very wealthy collectors around the world. I tend to,
and my aim is, to help recapture people’s childhood and
get the toys back and I think if they’re a little bit played
with that adds to their charm. That’s where I’m coming
from and think
the pre-loved is my kind of strap line.
Digger:
It’s like when you buy a new car or something and you’re
actually relieved when it gets a bump or a scratch or two…
John:
Yes, and then you don’t have to go through the pain of
seeing it get damaged.
Digger:
Yes, that awful feeling when you first scratch something
that was new and you feel bad for a day or two.
John:
It’s a good niche to be in because I can sell some quite
bashed up toys at a very low cost to people who would like
to recapture the memories of their youth.
Digger:
You are the Reggie Perrin of vintage toys.
John:
Yes, well I do sell some nice items as well! I
have quite a good condition grading system and show
photographs of the items from at least four angles. We
don’t get returns.
Digger:
That’s good. That would be uncomfortable if people had
thought that something was described wrongly.
John:
Yes. Our descriptions are always very accurate.
Digger:
What are the best things about what you do?
John:
The best things are the feedback really. Very often people
do feedback via email and say they are delighted with it or
the person they bought it for is absolutely delighted. They
just mention that they used to have one of those and their
spouse will go out and buy it at Christmas for them and
they’re generally delighted.
Digger:
We’re all big kids, aren’t we?
John:
Yes. I tend to package things really well too and respond to
people quickly and lots of positive stuff. The bits I like
are when it hits the right button with the person who’s
buying it. And we get a lot of repeat business as well –
30 – 40% is repeat.
Digger:
That’s why. Because you are bothering to pack properly and
communication is so important to the person at the other
end.
John:
A lot of stuff gets sold on eBay and that’s a really
difficult territory – there’s a lot of goodies and some
baddies out there and I think people are quite relieved
because, there’s quite a rejection of that now. So to find
a site like mine because people have had bad experiences
with auction sites generally. They like to find ordinary
honest people like me.
Digger:
There are some left!
John:
There’s a few of us. Because I work with the Youth
Offending Team I begin to think there aren’t very many.
Digger:
I can see that, but my experience is that people are
generally very honourable on The Net and in life.
John:
Yes.
Digger:
As in life, you get people ranting on chat rooms and being
obnoxious or even deceitful but most people are honest and
friendly enough.
John:
For my sort of target market, the sort of people who buy
toys are not fraudsters.
Digger:
No.
John:
Money laundering is not an issue!
Digger:
(Laughs) Some bloke from Nigeria who is offering you £2
million for a toy?
John:
Well, I have had enquiries from Nigeria – “Can we come
over and see all your toys?” But I tactfully ignored them.
Digger:
There is a retired guy who runs a website where he teases
and scams the scammers by stringing them along. It is very
funny. It was funny to see the scammer’s responses getting
more and more frustrated then annoyed as he kept asking
questions and making pointless observations to them.
John:
I have a book written by the same guy, a Scottish fellow and
it’s very funny. I do a lot of business overseas actually, and
I’ve got a shipment over to New Delhi right now.
Digger:
So who in New Delhi is buying British vintage die cast toys?
John:
Well, it’s a chap who used to play with them when he was a
child.
Digger:
An ex-pat?
John:
No, it’s an Indian name.
Digger:
Maybe the Matchboxes and Corgis did end up going out to the
old Empire in the old days?
John:
Some did and it was British India then. And I do send a lot
out to Australia, New Zealand, north America and Canada. They
often are people who’ve emigrated.
Digger:
Thank God for The Internet is all I can say.
John:
It’s fantastic. As is the postal system, which isn’t as
bad as everybody seems to think it is. The vast majority I
send using the postal service – I use couriers very
rarely.
Digger:
Why is retro and nostalgia so popular?
John:
I think every generation thinks that things aren’t as good
as they used to be and it was better in the old days. You
can go back over the centuries and every generation has
thought that. Children behave worse than they used to and
the winters were warmer and the summers not as rainy.
Digger:
Yes, when people talk about how great the spirit of the
nation was in the war I have to remind them that
nevertheless we were getting the wotsits bombed out of us by
the Germans and there was rationing, the black market and
looting.
John:
Yes, there’s a great deal that was really horrible indeed.
People are just more in touch with their feelings then with
the horrible nature of it all. We say modern life is rubbish
but that’s mainly because we don’t understand it and
it’s overtaken us because the buttons on the bloody
telephone, or whatever it is, are so confusing. I’m
turning into my father.
Digger:
Good for you. I’m glad to hear it John.
John:
It’s perfectly normal isn’t it?
Digger:
My girlfriend moans because I moan about stuff, but I
explain that it’s my way of getting it out of my system.
It’s perfectly natural.
John:
Yes, I think the love of the past is about getting in touch
with the good old days that we think were good and old!
Digger:
The future of the business, John, sounds as though a lot
depends on what happens next year. But it’s going to grow
and that is just a question of how quickly I suppose?
John:
Yes, it is. If I devoted all my time to it then it could
expand about five or six times.
Digger:
Go on. Do it!
John:
I will ultimately, but at the moment it’s pocket money on
top of my salary and it tops it up rather nicely. It could
grow rather quickly I think because the demand is certainly
there.
Digger:
And do you think the supply will always be there?
John:
That’s a question, isn’t it? Because I’m very much
aware that the generations will move on and the people who
are currently buying these things will fade away in one way
or another. And I’m not sure that the generation behind
them will have the same level of interest. I am consciously
moving my stock range, which used to stop at 1970, I’m now
thinking of bringing in some stuff from the 1980s and
perhaps bringing in some character merchandising like
Thunderbirds and James Bond and all that sort of stuff. I
think those are the things that people are going to collect
in the next few decades.
Digger:
And that the youngsters will be aware of as being valuable
as well.
John:
Things like Action Man – I don’t know if you remember
that but that’s a whole new ball game.
Digger:
I used to buy a cheaper version of Action Man when I was
little.
John:
GI Joe, you probably had.
Digger:
The moulding wasn’t as good, he didn’t have moving parts
as good as Action Man – and even the uniforms were cheaper
at 5 shillings as opposed to ten. We used to abuse those
things – drop them out of windows and submerge them in
water.
John:
Yes. So, there’s a very big collectors’ market for
those. And I started out my business with die cast toys and
cars mainly and I felt that I was missing out on half the
market because I was doing nothing for the ladies. So I
started doing the Floral Garden range. That’s been
extremely popular and I’ve got a huge pile of that waiting
to go out. It’s very labour intensive – assembling and
photographing.
Digger:
Are you going to do Sindy and Barbie as well?
John:
Well, there’s two things I don’t do. One is trains,
because I never had much in the way of trains when I was a
kid and the other thing is Sindy and Barbie – if I was to
find a business partner or two with a special interest in
those two that’s an area where I could grow.
Digger:
Well, best of luck with the future and thanks for letting us know all about Tortoys, John.
John:
It was a pleasure. Thanks David.
