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P.P. Arnold interview July 2010

 

 

P.P. Arnold

 

 

P.P. Arnold, or Patricia Cole as she was at the time, was one of the backing singers for Ike and Tina Turner, known as The Ikettes. A UK tour ended in Pat meeting Stones' manager Andrew Oldham and Mick Jagger. Thus, her UK solo career was launched. Hits such as The First Cut Is The Deepest and Angel Of The Morning established the now renamed P.P. Arnold as one of the best soul singers on the UK scene. 

P.P. was romantically and professionally linked to a number of the key players from the sixties, including The Rolling Stones, The Small Faces and Steve Marriott and Jimi Hendrix. She worked with Dusty Springfield and Madeline Bell and was a close friend of both as well as Marianne Faithfull.

 

With her powerful and soulful voice, P.P's talents were always in demand as a backing singer (for example, on the iconic Poor Boy by Nick Drake). She consistently tried to maintain a solo career, come what may in terms of musical fashions, genres and trends. Throughout the 70s, 80s, 90s and into the new millennium, P.P. consistently and determinedly re-invented herself and was involved in contemporary projects with the likes of KLF, Ocean Colour Scene and, more recently Roger Waters.

These days, P.P. is touring in the U.K. with a soul and jazz production featuring Digby Fairweather's band, courtesy of Paul Jones and Paul Ripley. This great band used to support George Melly. She is also working on the finishing touches to her first autobiography.

This is the interview that P.P. kindly gave to Digger at www.retrosellers.com

 

 

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Digger: Hello Pat. 

P.P: Hello Digger. How are you? 

Digger: I’m okay thanks. And you? 

P.P: Yes thanks. 

Digger: Are you sitting comfortably?... 

P.P: I’m sitting comfortably. 

Digger: I didn’t realise how many people I’ve interviewed who are connected with you. 

P.P: Oh? Who is that? 

Digger: Andrew Oldham, Bill Wyman, Paul Jones and Maddy Bell too. 

P.P: When did you speak to Madeline? 

Digger: About two years ago. Paul Jones was the most recent. 

P.P: And Andrew, God! 

Digger: He was in Colombia. Funnily enough, the way that happened was that the British Council in Colombia sent me an email and said they could put me in touch with Andrew. And it happened. 

P.P: Wow! 

Digger: He was lovely and said some nice things about my website. He said it was an inspiration and a delight! That was kind of him. 

P.P: He’s changed a lot – I saw him when I was in Colombia. 

Digger: He’s got a lady there which is the reason he moved there, although he jokes people say it’s because of all the drugs.  (Both laugh)

P.P: I think it was a bit of both! He married, but I can’t remember her name. She’s lovely and they both came to the hotel when I was in Bogota and they picked me up and we went out and had a meal together. Then I went back to their flat – he was travelling the next day and he was getting all of his many vitamins together. 

Digger: More drugs! 

P.P: Travelling around with a bag of vitamins. (Both laugh) 

Digger: That’s excellent. It reminds me of two rock stars I know who told me about when they were on a beach in their late fifties and they were sat there discussing ‘recipes’ for hanging baskets. And one pointed out that thirty years before it would have been sex, drugs and rock and roll on the beach. 

P.P: Very true. 

Digger: When I came back into Miami from Latin America they were very strict with bag searches and so on. It’s not to be recommended coming back to Miami from Colombia! 

P.P: That’s right. What did they do, did they search all your bags? 

Digger: Yes, and I was lucky to get away with just that. But at least the security guy was friendly. Maybe a bit too friendly! 

P.P: I can imagine! They don’t have a sense of humour at Heathrow. I was scanned recently. I think they chose me to be the terrorist of the day and there was an awful woman who was so rude and was running this scanner thing up and down me about six times and I asked her “Was that really necessary?” And, oh, she threatened me about how she was going to make me miss my flight… 

Digger: Nice. Maybe the same person who wound-up Diana Ross that time! 

P.P: It might have been. Anyway, she threatened me and insisted that I apologise to her and I said “I don’t know what I’m apologising for, but if it means I’m going to get my flight on time I apologise.” And she didn’t like that so she said “Follow me.” And they took me into this room where they don’t actually strip search you anymore, they scan search you. They had this machine and the bloody computer broke down and I just said “Listen, you guys need to get a Mac.” 

Digger: I’m sure that your advice was very well received. 

P.P: She was awful and they were all sniggering like it was a big joke to them. I didn’t think it was funny because I’d already been delayed by BA’s strike and I spent three extra days in London because of the strike. 

Digger: They seem to employ people in those positions. It’s a bit like the Nazis with those sorts of people being attracted to the jobs where they can cause distress and pain. 

P.P: This woman really did and she was one of those very, very light skinned Indian ladies who are more English than the English and she was just such a cow. But it was a good day for me because it made me realise just how much patience I have these days. 

Digger: Well done you. 

P.P: Because if she’d have caught me a few years ago… man! 

Digger: You’d have given her a slap. 

P.P: I wanted to but I was able to hold it in and give her a smile instead. (Both laugh) 

Digger: There’s a comedy film and I can’t remember what it’s called and he has a minor disagreement with the stewardess – he hasn’t been served coffee or something, and she says “You’ll get it when you get it.” sort of thing and before you know it the plane is grounded and he’s being dragged away by security as a terrorist. They can be unpleasant at airports but I think it’s just the luck of the draw. 

P.P: It really is. I was the chosen one that day. 

Digger: If you told the head person at Heathrow that their security people were sniggering at people’s genitalia or exposed shapes going through the new body scanners they’d be horrified because it would be really bad PR. They were at pains to say how carefully they took people’s privacy and dignity when these machines were introduced. If the public got any idea that it was being seen as a device for amusement, like the X-Ray specs they used to advertise in magazines, it wouldn’t look good. 

P.P: Well I didn’t say anything to them but I put a little message up on my Facebook regarding that. And I got so many replies. 

Digger: Send an email to the head honcho at Heathrow. 

P.P: Oh, I don’t have the time or the energy. 

Digger: I’ll do it for you. I think it’s outrageous. 

P.P: Okay! (Both laugh) 

Digger: I like a good cause. 

P.P: Yes, I normally do but if there’s negative energy I just like to get it off. 

Digger: Yes, I understand that. What are your happiest sixties memories Pat? 

P.P: Sixties memories? 

Digger: Yes, not your sixtieth memories! 

P.P: No, no, no, although I’ve got my freedom pass. (Laughs) Well, just all of ‘em. I guess the happiest was coming to England and being asked to stay and the early days of Immediate Records and just being a part of the whole scene that was happening there. It was SO different from America. Just a whole youth and pop music – it wasn’t black and white like it was in the States. 

Digger: We can’t understand that – obviously it’s been well documented and I spoke to your mates Paul and Bill and they were saying that they went over to the States and the Americans were saying “Man, this music is fantastic, where do you get this from?” And the white Englishmen replied “Just go over that bridge to the black side of town and that’s where you’ll hear it.” It was an alien thing to us that people would be separated in that way. 

P.P: Oh yeah. They were really separated although, do you know, they actually did that in England when I came back. I was in England from the sixties until ’75 when I left and I came back in the eighties and when I came back there was a separation. There was the black music scene and they wouldn’t play my music on Radio One. It was considered, because I was black now, I was a black artist. That’s just the silliness of the industry. In the sixties it wasn’t like that and it was just great to be there with everything that was going on. All the music and the fashion and the discotheques. 

Digger: You had a great time, didn’t you?! 

P.P: I really did. (Both laugh) The Days with The Faces when everything was good there and Andrew was actually a very creative manager. It was his vision for me that gave me the opportunity to have a career because I had never considered myself to be a solo artist at all.

Digger: You’d been working with Ike Turner and The Ikettes.   

 

 

Ike Turner

 

 

P.P: Yes, I was very much in the background and also on the whole business side of things. I was just singing and was very shy and I had no ambition to be a solo artist. That was Andrew’s doing and his vision that created P.P. Arnold. 

Digger: How did you get on with Marianne Faithfull? 

P.P: Very well. She was my first English girlfriend and taught me how to shop. To Andrew and Tony’s dismay. 

Digger: What sort of things would you do? 

P.P: We would go shopping. 

Digger: (Laughs) Yes, okay… 

P.P: To Harrods and she introduced me to shops where I used to get my shoes all handmade and we used to spend loads of money.   

 

 

Marianne Faithfull

 

 

Digger: Was this on Andrew’s account? 

P.P: This was! At least I thought it was but I soon learned that the artist pays for everything. At the end of the day I got nothing. 

Digger: What about Dusty Springfield? 

P.P: Dusty was lovely. I first met Dusty when we did Ready Steady Go – I don’t know if you remember that RSG where Ike and Tina did the whole show? 

Digger: I don’t, to be honest – I don’t want to make you feel old but I was six or seven when that was broadcast. 

P.P: Oh were you really? You baby! 

Digger: I haven’t been called a baby for some time. I’ve seen all the RSG’s they have left because they wiped most of them. 

P.P: I guess so. I just actually did an interview with Vicki Wickham. 

Digger: Oh did you? 

P.P: Yes, Just a couple of weeks ago. I’m really looking forward to the next time we see each other and she promised me a nice meal. Anything she could do to help me, she did and she was lovely. It was great talking to her about that time. 

Digger: RSG brought Tamla to the UK. 

P.P: Yes, that was the whole show that she was doing and it was about the sixties and RSG and that’s where I first met Dusty. She invited us over to her house for lunch and Madeline cooked fried chicken and that’s where I first met Madeline.   

 

 

   

Madeline Bell and Dusty Springfield 

Two publicity shots of P.P. Arnold

 

 

Digger: You girls must have been really dangerous when you were all out together?

P.P: Well, they were dangerous. (Laughs) I was just this really timid little soul singer that didn’t know what was happening and was just going with the flow. 

Digger: What about boyfriends? Because you were incredibly attractive, so can you give us a clue about the sort of people who we might know who you were dating? 

P.P: I had a few, I must admit. 

Digger: I’m not surprised. (Both laugh) 

P.P: You know, of course, Mick was dating Marianne and me at the same time. We were quite friendly about it and I wasn’t expecting Mick Jagger to marry me or anything like that. And Marianne was aware of me and I was aware of her. There was Mick and a few other quite famous relationships – Jimi Hendrix and I were quite close and then Steve Marriott and I were more like soul brother and sister, even though we spent some time together. It was better for us just to be brother and sister.   

 

 

Steve Marriott

Mick Jagger

Jimi Hendrix  
Image courtesy of and © copyright Gered Mankowitz

 

 

Digger: It was amazing for those black-sounding voices to come out of Dusty and Steve, a girl from Hampstead and a boy from the east end? 

P.P: Well yes, especially Steve. You know, to be honest I think Madeline had quite an influence on Dusty’s sound. If you listen to Dusty and listen to Madeline you can hear quite a lot of Madeline in Dusty even though Madeline sang as a backing singer for Dusty for many years. She was very soulful and Steve was just a monster – he was fantastic. When I say a monster, I mean as in great, huge. Very, very raw and I think his Nan had introduced him to Ray Charles at a very early age. And they were just so aware of all the music and especially coming to England with the blues and everything. I knew about the blues, of course. I grew up with the blues in the background of my house. My mother and father played it and we kids all thought the blues was old folks music. Motown was young folks music. We were serious teenagers. 

Digger: Was England a culture shock to you? Did England seem a bit old fashioned? 

P.P: No, England was very progressive. 

Digger: No TV stations, no radio stations apart from a handful from the BBC? 

P.P: Yeah, okay in that sense. But as far as the actual things that you did have access to, it was very progressive. The whole music revolution was taking place there and in America, of course the music was everywhere, but our focus was at that time on the civil rights revolution that was going on. So for me to come out of the civil rights revolution into the rock and roll revolution was quite a shock. There’s no way I would have been riding in a limo with The Rolling Stones in America or would have had the opportunity to have a career in America as easy as it happened in England – no way. 

Digger: In my generation there’s been a big revolution in terms of black people being assimilated into all areas of the culture. There wasn’t a British black music scene when you were first here. 

P.P: When we came we pioneered that, Madeline and myself. 

Digger: We had Kenny Lynch and that was it! 

P.P: That’s right, Kenny Lynch, Millie. Oh, and Shirley Bassey, of course. 

Digger: Yes, don’t forget good old Shirley. 

P.P: But other than that, not a lot. 

Digger: And in just one generation, it’s completely turned around, hasn’t it? 

P.P: Yes, it has turned around to a degree. I always think that American black music has more exposure in England than the English scene, although now they’re on the hip-hop level and the young R ‘n B there’s a lot. My youngest son, Kojo, he’s a musician and a producer and MD and he’s the keyboard player with The Sugababes. He MD’s with a lot of these guys like MC Stryder and I think he’s working with this girl Pixie Lott. Even though they’re all English they’re all doing R ‘n B music and there’s a lot more happening. And Dizzie Rascal – he’s brilliant. A lot of the time the black singers come and go. We all have a time and then suddenly we disappear and never come back. It’s hard to come back - you’re hot and then you’re cold.   

 

 

Dizzie Rascal

 

 

Digger: But isn’t that true of all performers and not just black performers surely? 

P.P: Yeah, it is but with the black performers I find it’s a minority rather than a majority. 

Digger: I used to be looking for really obscure soul releases in the seventies, rummaging in the back-street specialist record shops of north and south London. 

P.P: The northern soul scene, when I came back to England in the eighties, was massive and it still is. It’s like they are my really hardcore fans but still that scene is quite underground. It’s not cosy commercial but those lovers of soul music, there’s a support system there for us artists who are hard-headed enough to keep going like myself. They can’t get rid of me and I keep popping up. (Digger laughs) I pop up every decade doing something and that’s helped me to be quite the survivor. 

Digger: You’re like the black R ‘n B equivalent of Cliff Richard! 

P.P: Well! If you say so. Cliff gets paid a whole lot more than I do. 

Digger: Why do you spend a lot of time in Spain – is it the obvious thing of it being warm and a nice base? 

P.P: No, it wasn’t that at all. It was just that I had been through so many things in the music business – kind of similar to Madeline really, she just kind of lost faith. Because when you’ve made so many contributions to the industry and then you’re just forgotten, you know? And so I didn’t come here to run away or anything, but I was definitely at a crossroads as to whether I wanted to stay in England and keep fighting the fight, you know? I had done all these different releases – in the eighties I broke through on the dance music scene with The Beatmasters and I had that hit with KLF and that was a bad experience. But I came back through and I was doing all that stuff with Ocean Colour Scene in the eighties. You ended up supporting all these other artists but then when it’s time for people to scratch your back nobody is there. So I was in quite a dire financial situation and I had a really terrible accident in 1986. I wasn’t able to work or perform but I was doing a lot of adverts and a lot of commercials. So that’s how I got some work and that kept me going. But then, after everything broke down with Ocean Colour Scene, I was just so distressed about that and I felt that things weren’t happening for me. I didn’t have strong support – whatever happened to all that creative management and support like I got with Andrew? 

Digger: It had turned into accountants and lawyers by that stage.

P.P: It had and DJs. 

Digger: That’s right. DJs became the new stars. 

P.P: Yes, so you’re part of all these production teams and working with people who couldn’t even find a C on the keyboard. And I was starting to feel like I was being pimped, you know? 

Digger: I can understand how you must have felt. 

P.P: So I wasn’t very happy. 

Digger: I don’t think the British are very good at showing appreciation for stars. 

P.P: The fans are. The fans are fantastic if you can manage to get to the fans. It was the industry – all the A&R departments were changing rapidly and then you have all these new young kids who never heard your records and knew nothing about you. If you had a chance to do something they were more concentrating on what was new rather than who you were and there was this whole ageism thing going on. If you’re over 25 and haven’t had plastic surgery or a boob job… 

Digger: I’ve had mine (Both laugh) What do you see as your biggest achievement? 

P.P: Survival. Just to survive. I’m feeling really good about myself right now and I don’t dwell on all of those trials and tribulations that I’ve been through. I just realise that if I’m going to have a career for myself it’s up to me to create that and so it’s like the whole music scene changed and there wasn’t live music for a long time. I’m quite a live artist and need to perform and so it was really hard for artists like myself to be able to work and be able, without struggling and not making a lot of money, to keep going. That’s fine when you’re a young teenager but when you’re an adult and have families and mortgages. All of these things you have then you need to be able to survive and I always think that you’re as good as the team around you. So now I thank God for the technology that exists because you’re able to promote and have a local platform for yourself, if you have a website. Facebook is a fantastic tool too and I just started a FaceBook page a couple of month ago and it’s doing SO well. Every day, every week I’m getting fifty new people on there so it’s really quite growing. 

Digger: And that’s just the people that have thought about it or stumbled upon it – in time there will be loads more people wanting to join as well. 

P.P: I need to promote it because I was just testing the waters with Facebook. I thought it was quite intrusive at first but I didn’t realise that the whole artist side of it could be separated, so I had to split my personal page from my artist page. I had all these people coming in – my sisters and brothers from across the waters, but I don’t want everybody knowing my personal business. 

Digger: No, and you don’t want to spend your whole time replying to people, with the best intentions, are taking up all of your time telling you they think you’re great and do you remember them at a concert in 1968? 

P.P: Exactly, the artist page just sort of runs itself and I can be in and out of there as I like. I have a great administrator, Mick Taylor – he keeps the vibe alive on there. 

Digger: That’s a famous name. 

P.P: Yeah, but it’s not the Mick Taylor you think it is. 

Digger: That’s the thing with Facebook, though, it’s not always who you think it is. Weirdoes adopt all sorts of celebrity names and the profiles aren’t anything to do with who you think they are to do with. 

P.P: Well, Mick Taylor, who is a lovely guy - I call him the senior administrator because he’s working it all the time. I think it’s also important for me to have a voice there because I don’t have a record company. Most artists have somebody from the record company running their website or Facebook for them. I think the fans like that personal touch. I like being involved in it as well. In a few weeks I’m upgrading my website where I’ll be doing a lot of unreleased material. 

Digger: That’s a good idea. 

P.P: From a lot of the independent productions that I’ve done through the years that people don’t know about because it wasn’t commercial enough so the record company didn’t put it out, or for whatever reason. 

Digger: Because they were spotty kids. 

P.P: Exactly. But sometimes these people don’t know a hit if it smacks them in the face.   

 

 

 

 

Digger: No, I don’t think a lot of them ever did, to be honest. 

P.P: A lot of times, with a lot of my music, especially after I stopped doing the straight pop, a lot of the music I love is fusion-orientated and I like message-orientated themes and I think I’ve been ahead of the times. Whereas now it’s okay to do that. People are ready to listen to spiritual concepts and stand up to a few political statements from a female artist. 

Digger: We can take that these days, can’t we? 

P.P: Yeah, I think we need to be able to and people are okay to hear the truth of the matter within a song. But love songs and fun – music still has to have all of that as well. Romance and fun as well as taking a stand and being a part of the changes that humanity are going through – music has a role to provide both. 

Digger: Can you tell us about your current projects and future tours? 

P.P: I’m just finishing my autobiography that I’ve been working on for years. 

Digger: Have you got the title yet? 

P.P: I’m not sure, because it’s taken me so long to write it – I was determined to write it myself because it’s a story that goes through a lot of changes. People don’t really know who I am, they know I sung these songs but they don’t really know where I come from or anything about my past or how I got to be P.P. Arnold and all of that. So the first book is going to be coming from my roots. 

Digger: It was Gered Mankowitz who first named you P.P. wasn’t it? 

P.P: Yeah, that was Gered. He’s one of the few real long-term friends that sticks by you through the thick and the thin. He’s a good man and a great man and he has a lovely family and I love him. 

Digger: Do you go down to that corner of England much to see him? 

P.P: Yeah, I saw him last year when I was on a soul tour with Geno Washington and I saw him. He and his wife came to one of the gigs there but I’m always in touch with him. He still takes most of my promotional photos through time and he’s such a great photographer with some great images to his name. A creative genius.   

 

 

Geno Washington

 

 

Digger: Where next then Pat? 

P.P: I was touring with Roger Waters for the last ten years really. I’ve been on the road touring around the world with Roger. We came off the last dark Side Of The Moon tour in 2008 and then I did the soul tour in 2009 and then I took a break. I was thinking about retiring because I was a little fed up with the industry as you probably gathered. I was thinking “Where do I fit into all this?” I mean, I love working with Roger, it was just fantastic but I don’t want to end up just working in the background. I’m a real singer and I want to sing so I did the tour with Geno and Jimmy and I realised that I do still have fans out there who are moved by my voice. I thought “Let me just finish my book and take some time." Writing the book brought some stuff up and so I did a lot of spiritual work – I’m a healer and do Raki and I’m a Raki master. Not religious, just a healer. I’m not into the institution of religion but I am very spiritual and always have been. I’m a soul singer and I’m a healer – that’s what we do with our voices. The thing is finding where you place yourself within an industry that can be quite cruel. And you have a lot of demons out there and a lot of toxic energy that we take on that a lot of artists don’t know how to shake it all off. And keep renewing ourselves. So I did a lot of work like that and then I got a call from Paul Jones telling me about Digby Fairweather...

 

 

 

   

Roger Waters and Paul Jones

 

 

Digger: I saw them both at a Blues/Jazz show about four months ago. It was terrific. 

P.P: What I’m going to do with Digby – I actually toured with The Manfreds in 2004 and that was great but people keep asking me to be a guest on their tours. But waiting around to sing three or four songs a night with all the touring and travelling, that’s hard work. I feel I have created enough credibility and enough experience to do an hour and a half – I can easily do that because I’ve still got my health and my strength and my voice is as good as ever. 

Digger: As you say, if you’re touring anyway you may as well be there doing a full set. We saw Judy Collins in January and she did a full set without a break and only a sip of water to help her throat along. She did a cracking job and must be in her seventies now. 

P.P:  Wow! I have my tea with me and it’s hard work being a soul singer – you have to be fit. So, Paul suggested that I get in touch with Digby and I did and told him I was thinking of retiring and I didn’t want to be bothered with the hassle of the promoters and getting paid and so on. But Digby is such a nice man and he made me think I could go out and stretch myself even more and sing some jazz and Digby was up for doing more blues and more funky stuff. And so we agreed to see how it goes and that’s how this all came up. Paul Ripley was the catalyst and I went to London and met Digby and what a sweetheart he is and I know he’s a great musician. I haven’t met or heard the band except on CD – I’ve heard the George Melly recordings. And it’s a great band. 

Digger: I’ve seen them live and they are a great band. 

P.P: So we’ve put together a great set and we’re going to be funking and rocking and popping and swingin’ away. 

Digger: How many gigs are you doing? 

P.P: So far we have seven gigs booked in October and we’re testing the water to see how that goes, and if it goes well then we’ll do more. Go on the website and you’ll see the dates and I’m sure we’ve got some dates near you. 

Digger: Well, Pat it’s good to hear that you’re so busy and I look forward to the tour and also to the book. 

P.P: The book will be finished soon. 

Digger: You won’t tell us the title? 

P.P: I’m still not sure yet, but also I have a lot of music that I recorded an album with Chas Jenkel and all of that music is going to be happening through the website at first, of course and I’m going to have a lot of stuff available at these gigs that people will be able to hear and buy. We’ll see where it goes from here and thank God for the wonders of technology huh? 

Digger: We couldn’t see it coming and suddenly it’s generated so many opportunities. 

P.P: Yes, especially for independent artists. 

Digger: Thank you for talking to us Pat. 

P.P: Thank you. These things I’m talking about – I don’t want to sound moany, moany – I’m not moaning about things, it’s just the reality of the way things have gone and the way the business behaves. 

Digger: I know. Take care Pat. 

P.P: Okay, fantastic Digger and good luck with your family. 

Digger: Thank you. All the best for now Pat. See you in the Autumn - I mean Fall!