You are in the Special Features section - Pattie Boyd, Eric Clapton, George Harrison

Pattie Boyd (aka Pattie Boyd-Harrison and Pattie Clapton) has led an incredibly full and influential life, being photographed by the leading photographers in the sixties (David Bailey and Terence Donovan), being chosen to appear in The Beatles' debut movie A Hard Day's Night, being married to both George Harrison and Eric Clapton for over a decade apiece and inspiring some of popular music's most enduring songs such as Layla, Wonderful Tonight and Something. Her photography has recently received great attention and acclaim and is soon due to appear at a London gallery. She is something of an icon for fans of The Beatles and of sixties and seventies popular culture and she has always been the topic of much speculation. Now, at last, her biography has resolved some of the questions surrounding her life and relationships with rock and popular culture's elite.

The biography of Pattie Boyd, Wonderful Today, was published in the UK on 23rd August by Headline Publishing (ISBN: 9780755317424) 

Pattie kindly agreed to talk to us at www.retrosellers.com and here is that interview. 

Digger: Can you tell us briefly how you came to be modelling and appearing in TV adverts in the sixties?

Pattie: I was sort of working with Elizabeth Arden and somebody came into the salon one day and I'd only been there a month or so. She asked if I'd ever considered being a model. She was working for a magazine and I went to see her for an interview and she arranged for me to meet my then agent and have photographs taken of me. So after endless work of wandering around to show photographers my portfolio, I got an awful lot of work, including a commercial for Smith's crisps. And Dick Lester was the director on this advert and, interestingly enough, while I was doing another modelling job my agent said can you go along for an interview and I did and, of course, Dick Lester was there. So I assumed it was going to be another crisp commercial. And I found out later that, no, it was for a part in a Beatles film! (both laugh) And I couldn't believe it!

Digger: But you weren't really a big Beatles fan at that time were you?

Pattie: Well, no, I was just getting on with modelling and was really into photographers and hanging-out and having a good time. Obviously, you know, I was aware of their music but I didn't go to their concerts and actually I didn't know anybody who did. None of my friends did. 

Digger: That was '64 wasn't it? 

Pattie: Yes, January/February '64. 

Digger: So whose idea was it for you and the other young ladies to be dressed as schoolgirls in a Hard Day's Night? In retrospect, was there a bit of a fetish thing going on?!

Pattie: It was part of the script. We were told to dress as schoolgirls and the outfits were produced for us. You see, for me I'd only left school two years previously and I always had these recurring nightmares of being sent back to boarding school for some misdemeanour. And then the idea of being in my first movie, not that I ever wanted to be in a movie, but meeting the famous Beatles and I'm wearing a HIDEOUS uniform . It was like a punishment. Especially after wearing all the fabulous clothes and great designs that I was wearing for my modelling, everything was happening and looking good. And then I'm thrown back to looking like a schoolgirl again. (laughs)

Pattie and George

Digger: You have worked hard at your 'new' job as a photographer and have established a reputation for yourself there. How important is photography to you?

Pattie: Photography is still a passion for me. As soon as I look in the camera and I'm doing some work and composing a picture I just have a rush of excitement, whether I'm photographing flowers or landscapes or portraits.

Digger: Did you know, even when you were the object or subject of photographs and appearing in magazines that you wanted to be at the other end of the camera?

Pattie: Yes I did. As far I was concerned it was sort of a natural progression. Because I'd been in front of the camera for so long and so many shots, and because I hung out with photographers, I then started to learn a little bit more about photography and what they were seeing through the lens.  And until you see you don't realise and you don't know.

Digger: Which of your photographs have given you most joy and pleasure?

Pattie: I think an eternally beautiful photograph I've taken  is one I took of George. In India, and he's lying on a bed and he's looking incredibly peaceful and calm and this is just after we've been mediating for a couple of months in the Himalayas and this was before The Beatles all went back to England to start their career as businessmen with Apple. So he never looked as calm as that after that. So it was a most beautiful moment and he does look lovely. That photo is in the book and also on my website.

Digger: Who looks after the website? It's rather ritzy. 

Pattie: Not too bad is it? A guy called Richard Wilding did it and he does quite a lot of work for cutting edge artists as well.

Digger: What do you see as your biggest accomplishments to-date and what would you still like to achieve?

Pattie: (Thinks hard) I'd like to carry on taking nice photographs and better photographs and I'd like to take the ultimate photograph that I can be really proud of. And as I'll never achieve this it's my carrot that will be dangling for the rest of my life. I'd like to appear on the front of National Geographic really.

Digger: Did/do you ever tire of questions about Eric Clapton and George Harrison or do you recognise and accept the public's interest in your involvement with them?

Pattie: Well I do accept it now because of bringing out my autobiography, but up until that point I really had no idea that there was such a vast majority of the public that was still interested in them. And also I'm aware that there have been so many books that have come out from various people who might have met them or have known them for some time. And I just thought that people might say "Oh no, not another book that's talking about The Beatles." But in fact mine doesn't really, it just mentions the fact that I met them.

Digger: But yours isn't just another book, though is it? I mean, you are particularly qualified to have an opinion aren't you?

Pattie: Yes, yes. 

Digger: So what in particular, if anything, did you think you needed to set the record straight on when writing your book?

Pattie: Nothing particularly, simply because I'm not someone who combs every paper and the trashy tabloids to find out if things are written about me. I mean, at last I can say my name is spelt PATTIE. It's not a great scandalous thing to sort out.

Digger: Well, if that's all you had to clear up, it can't be too bad can it?

Pattie: I've never felt any sort of resentment that the record hasn't been set straight up until this point. Actually, I don't really care what the record says.

Digger: What caused the massive explosion in creativity and popular culture in the sixties of which you were a part? Will something like that ever occur again in your view?

Pattie: Not for a hundred years. (laughs) I think it was a zeitgeist, actually. I felt as if there was a huge population of the western world, particularly creative people, who I felt understood the change we were going to go through. And I remember when I must have been fourteen, fifteen, sixteen and feeling something's wrong. And I felt there was room for change. I felt stifled in what I knew and what I had learned up to that point. I felt there should be something else. And gradually, when I left school at seventeen I still felt the same but something was shifting. Obviously the fifties were, I suppose the coming out of the dire situation that people were left in after the war and the fifties were still pretty straight-laced and attitudes were the same. There was colour, but it was extreme colour, like Doris Day. Too extreme, and so it had to settle down and become more cool. And much more youthful as well. Also, I think up until that point teenagers weren't known as teenagers. There were children and then there were grown-ups. 

Digger: Young adults dressed like their parents.

Pattie: Yes, exactly, miniature versions of them. What the sixties did was to create another gap between children and young adults.

Digger: It wasn't just a youth and adult thing though, was it? The class attitudes also changed in a revolutionary way. Were you aware of that, because you were obviously involved in it? 

Pattie: I was and I never understood why my stepfather was just absolutely furious with the thing I would do to really upset him. That was to try and put on a fake cockney accent. And he would go absolutely bananas. I wanted to tease him and I didn't understand why he found it so unacceptable to have a different accent. And then I started living in London and meeting all sorts of wonderfully creative people with various regional accents. And it was part of them and it was fascinating. And I think that broke down the class system to an extent, not totally, but to an extent. 

Digger: So what fuelled your interest in eastern philosophy which ultimately led to The Beatles all becoming interested - was it as a result of your feeling that things were changing?

Pattie: Yes, absolutely. And I also thought that there was something more to learn. And discussing this with a girlfriend we wanted to learn something from the east. We didn't know what - Zen Buddhism or what it would be. Anyway, we saw an ad in The Sunday Times saying if anyone wanted to come for meditation classes and we thought let's go for that first. So off we went and then when George came back from his tour we told him all about it and he became quite interested. And then as luck would have it the Maharishi was coming to London to give a lecture. And I think Paul heard about the lecture and in the end, as usual, we all went. 

Digger: What makes you laugh, what makes you sad, what makes you angry and what makes you hopeful?

Pattie: Being tickled makes me laugh.

Digger: Say again?

Pattie: Being tickled.

Digger: (laughs) Sorry, the line went funny there because I thought you said 'Being pickled'! (both laugh) It's weird, people are either not ticklish at all or they're very ticklish.

Pattie: I don't understand people that aren't ticklish.

Digger: No, they're very strange!

Pattie: I think they're terribly clever, unless they're not owning up.

Digger: I don't think they're that clever, I think it's probably something they inherited.

Pattie: ...Sad? Hopelessness in a disastrous situation... Angry? Political stupidity.

Digger: Such as?

Pattie: I don't mean ANY politics, I mean some laws that are passed and nobody that you speak to agrees with it so why are they doing it? What is the matter with them? How come we all know and we're not even politicians. We voted them in.... And hopeful? A blue sky on a winter morning.

Digger: What has been the happiest period of your life?

Pattie: I think probably in my twenties. I loved it because you can wear what you want and you know you're pretty attractive and you have lovely friends and everything seems to be absolutely glorious and there are no problems whatsoever. And because this doesn't come into your thinking. And life is just a joyous place and you just imagine that it will always be like that.

Digger:  So what's your relationship with Penny Junor - it looks pretty good, but how did it happen?

Pattie: We have a mutual friend called Ivan Massow who I was on holiday in India with a couple of years ago. He's only about 38. He was quite interested in some little anecdotes I told him and he said "Oh, I think you should write a book." And I said "Ivan, everyone's always saying that." But he said "No, I REALLY think you should and I've got JUST the person that you should meet. "  And so when we returned to England he invited me and Penny to lunch in order to meet and then he disappeared. And we got on and the thing is she didn't know anything about the rock and roll world or really much about me or my sort of lifestyle. She was the daughter of a journalist and went from school to university and had always been writing. And she'd only been to one rock concert. 

Digger:  Has she been to more since she met you?

Pattie: No....Yes! One, Cliff Richard! (both laugh)

Digger: Sex, drugs and rock and roll.

Pattie: And I thought well this is actually quite a good idea because I'll have to explain everything to her, as I would to anybody who doesn't know. And it worked out very well.

Digger: George Harrison was my favourite Beatle because of his musical ability and spiritual nature but more importantly because of his sense of humour. Can you share any memories of how this sense of humour manifested itself?

Pattie: He just loved comedy. He loved Eric Idle. And he loved Peter Sellers. But George had his own brand of humour as well. I can see him prancing around and being funny and imitating... I don't know , he was just very funny but it's very hard to explain.

Digger: Are you a nostalgic person or do you tend to look forward?

Pattie: No, I look forward. Occasionally I'm nostalgic and I'll tell you when. If I SMELL something and I'm walking or driving and I catch a smell of something, then I become nostalgic and go back to wherever the scent originated.

Digger: You can actually pinpoint a particular place and time with smell can't you?

Pattie: Yes. It's lovely. 

Pattie and Eric

Digger: What did you think of the Cream reunion concerts last year? Did you attend/did you see them on DVD?

Pattie: Yes I went. I think it might have been the last night and it was fantastic.

Digger: What would you have made of the internet, sat-nav, iPods, mobile phones and digital cameras if someone had shown them to you in the sixties?

Pattie: I would have LOVED them because they would have seemed like toys from Mars.  

Digger: What do you think of the state of British music these days and what music do you listen to?

Pattie: I think it's getting a bit better. I heard the McCartney single the other day and I think it's fantastic. And a friend of mine was telling me the album is really good. He's on a good one at the moment. And I LOVE Amy Winehouse. And I like Lily Allen as well.

Digger: I saw her last Thursday. She was a guest at Keane's War Child concert at Brixton and she did three of her own numbers and then a Keane song with the Keane boys. She's very talented... What is your biggest passion?

Pattie: Photography and food. I'm MAD about chocolate. With ingredients like cardomen and vanilla and chili. Sometimes I put the very dark chocolate in stews. It's a Mexican thing.

Digger: Like Jane Asher, you inspired several songs. Which songs of The Beatles, George Harrison and Eric Clapton are your favourites?

Pattie: I'd have to say that Something is my favourite of George's. Because it is so beautiful. And I think Layla of Eric's songs was stunning because it's very passionate and very desperate and soulful and I just think it's beautifully constructed with a wonderful melody. 

Digger: What was your relationship with Cynthia Lennon and Jane Asher? 

Pattie: We were all great friends when we saw each other. Cynthia and I would go on holiday together with John and George, so we saw more of each other. 

Digger: Because you'd all be given funny names and go off in different directions on holiday?

Pattie: It would always be John and George, then Paul and Ringo. This was all organised by Brian Epstein. He organised some LOVELY things for us.

Digger: It's great, isn't it? All you had to do was show up.

Pattie: (laughs) Yes, he was like a father figure.

Brian, Pattie and George on their wedding day

Digger: What about Yoko?

Pattie: Yoko was okay. She's not a girl's girl and she was more distant. 

Digger: What do you think about her 'flying the flag' for John these days?

Pattie: Well, if this is what she enjoys doing.

Digger: What are your thoughts on the Heather/Paul debacle that's going on at the moment?

Pattie: I think it's absolutely disgraceful. She's so in the public eye all the time. That outburst was unbelievable and what was worse about it was that she was saying she was a victim like Princess Diana and the McCanns. I think that was the worst thing she said. The press can be very cruel, but the McCanns are courting the press for a reason and I think that Heather shouldn't be courting it to get public opinion on her side. Because at the end of the day it doesn't matter - so she and Paul don't get on. So what? Actually, who cares?

Digger: It happens to a lot of us doesn't it? I mean, I've been through a divorce too, as have you, and we can't always get it right.

Pattie: No you can't. Just because two people don't get on. That should be it and it shouldn't really be anybody else's concern. People are interested to know the grimier, grittier side of their lives. English people in particular seem to want to know, I don't know why.

Digger: You said a wise thing, and I paraphrase. You said that some relationships only have a set time and then they end naturally and so we should just celebrate them for the time they lasted. 

Pattie: I believe that, don't you?

Digger: Definitely. So can you please just describe these people in a few words?... Pattie Boyd...

Pattie: (long silence) Oh!  (laughs) Sorry, I thought you were going to talk some more!

Digger: (laughs) Ha! You had a back-to-school moment there and stood to attention like you'd been caught smoking behind the bike sheds! Can you describe yourself in a few words?

Pattie: I'm honest. I have a good sense of humour. And I love my friends. And I LURV food.

Digger: George Harrison...

Pattie: (thinks) A very kind person, very funny...

Digger: Would you call him spiritual?

Pattie: Yes, actually I'd put that first. Very spiritual, funny, kind.

Pattie and George

Digger: Eric Clapton...

Pattie: A great guitarist.

Digger: David Bailey...

Pattie: Fantastic photographer.

Digger: John Lennon....

Pattie: (thinks hard) Wicked sense of humour.

Digger: Paul McCartney...

Pattie: (thinks very hard) Paul... he's difficult, like a butterfly, hard to pin him down. Paul is clever.

Digger: Mick Jagger...

Pattie: Mick's naughty. He liked to have fun.

Digger: Please tell us about your plans for the future.

Pattie: I'm hoping to go to India to do a photographic story. I want to get some interest from a magazine or two and do a story on jewellery. It's just an idea I have that might be interesting - a sort of photo-journalist type story I'd like to do.

Digger: Well, I told you this would only take half an hour, and I'm looking at my clock now and it says half past five. And we started at five. So I was bang on!

Pattie: No, hang on David. You haven't asked ALL of your questions. You haven't asked me who I'd like to have round for dinner.

Digger: Oh, sorry. That's my fault. Well done. I missed that one! 

Pattie: I've done my homework, you see.

Digger: I'm slapping my wrist here, can you hear it? Tell me who you'd like to have round for dinner, and why.

Pattie: Bill Clinton. Because I understand he's not only brilliantly clever and a great speaker but he's terribly sexy. Henry the eighth, because I would be fascinated to see just how much he could eat. (Digger laughs) Audrey Hepburn - I'd like to just gaze at her beauty. Brigitte Bardot...

Digger: Well, I'm with you there! You know John had a big thing about Brigitte Bardot?

Pattie: Oh yes, I remember! I was there then. When she was young she was so... well, you say what you'd describe her as...

Digger: Well, phwoar! just about does it, I think. In the same way as Marilyn Monroe was. Just being on the screen was enough, it didn't matter what they were doing.

Pattie: Absolutely.

Digger: Brigitte shares something in common with Doris Day, Virginia McKenna and Alexandra Bastedo, you know? They have all gone from being actresses to running animal sanctuaries.

Pattie: Oh really? I think probably humans let them down.

Oscar Wilde	Henry VIIIth
Batman	Audrey Hepburn
Bill Clinton	Brigitte Bardot

Digger: ... So who else would be at the party?

Pattie: Oscar Wilde. Because of his ability to twist words around and he would be utterly amusing.  And finally Batman.

Digger: Batman?! (laughs) Any particular actor playing him or just Batman himself?

Pattie: Just Batman himself. The idea of Batman swooping in for dinner!

Digger: What would you cook?

Pattie: Oh, God, with Henry there I'd need to have an awful lot of food. I'd definitely have a roast goose, with Austrian stuffing. And I'd have lots of starters, maybe three types of cocktails with canapés. And loads of chocolate puddings. 

Digger: A local restaurant here has chocolate spoons with the coffee.

Pattie: Wonderful. I have occasionally just dropped the whole chocolate into my coffee and stirred it.

Digger: Well, that's the lot Pattie. It was fun and I really appreciate your time. I'm a big Beatles fan and I have interviewed Sir George Martin, Astrid and Klaus and Sid Bernstein in the past. Sid is a big fan of Thornton's chocolates. Did you ever meet him?

Pattie: Yes! Do you know what I met him at my book launch in New York. Sid turned up and it was so sweet of him and I was so honoured. 

Digger: Thanks very much Pattie and I'll make sure I spell your name right too.

Pattie: My pleasure. It was nice to talk to you. Bye David.