Digger: Can you tell us briefly how
you came to be modelling and appearing in TV adverts in the
sixties?
Pattie: I was
sort of working with Elizabeth Arden and somebody came into the
salon one day and I'd only been there a month or so. She asked if
I'd ever considered being a model. She was working for a magazine
and I went to see her for an interview and she arranged for me to
meet my then agent and have photographs taken of me. So after
endless work of wandering around to show photographers my
portfolio, I got an awful lot of work, including a commercial for Smith's
crisps. And Dick Lester was the director on this advert and,
interestingly enough, while I was doing another modelling job my
agent said can you go along for an interview and I did and, of
course, Dick Lester was there. So I assumed it was going to be
another crisp commercial. And I found out later that, no, it was
for a part in a Beatles film! (both laugh) And I couldn't believe
it!
Digger: But you
weren't really a big Beatles fan at that time were you?
Pattie:
Well, no, I was just getting on with modelling and was really into
photographers and hanging-out and having a good time. Obviously,
you know, I was aware of their music but I didn't go to their
concerts and actually I didn't know anybody who did. None of my
friends did.
Digger:
That was '64 wasn't it?
Pattie:
Yes, January/February '64.
Digger:
So whose idea was it for you and the other young ladies to be
dressed as schoolgirls in a Hard Day's Night? In retrospect, was
there a bit of a fetish thing going on?!
Pattie:
It was part of the script. We were told to dress as schoolgirls
and the outfits were produced for us. You see, for me I'd only
left school two years previously and I always had these recurring
nightmares of being sent back to boarding school for some misdemeanour.
And then the idea of being in my first movie, not that I ever
wanted to be in a movie, but meeting the famous Beatles and I'm
wearing a HIDEOUS uniform . It was like a punishment. Especially
after wearing all the fabulous clothes and great designs that I
was wearing for my modelling, everything was happening and looking
good. And then I'm thrown back to looking like a schoolgirl again.
(laughs)
Digger: You have worked hard at
your 'new' job as a photographer and have established a reputation
for yourself there. How important is photography to you?
Pattie: Photography is still a
passion for me. As soon as I look in the camera and I'm doing some
work and composing a picture I just have a rush of excitement,
whether I'm photographing flowers or landscapes or portraits.
Digger: Did you know, even when you
were the object or subject of photographs and appearing in
magazines that you wanted to be at the other end of the camera?
Pattie: Yes I did. As far I was
concerned it was sort of a natural progression. Because I'd been
in front of the camera for so long and so many shots, and because
I hung out with photographers, I then started to learn a little bit
more about photography and what they were seeing through the
lens. And until you see you don't realise and you don't
know.
Digger: Which of your photographs
have given you most joy and pleasure?
Pattie: I think an eternally
beautiful photograph I've taken is one I took of George. In India,
and he's lying on a bed and he's looking incredibly peaceful and
calm and this is just after we've been mediating for a couple of
months in the Himalayas and this was before The Beatles all went
back to England to start their career as businessmen with Apple.
So he never looked as calm as that after that. So it was a most
beautiful moment and he does look lovely. That photo is in the
book and also on my website.
Digger: Who looks after the
website? It's rather ritzy.
Pattie:
Not too bad is it? A guy called Richard Wilding did it and he does
quite a lot of work for cutting edge artists as well.
Digger:
What do you see as your biggest accomplishments to-date and what
would you still like to achieve?
Pattie:
(Thinks hard) I'd like to carry on taking nice photographs and better
photographs and I'd like to take the ultimate photograph that I
can be really proud of. And as I'll never achieve this it's my
carrot that will be dangling for the rest of my life. I'd like to
appear on the front of National Geographic really.
Digger:
Did/do you ever tire of questions about Eric Clapton and George
Harrison or do you recognise and accept the public's interest in
your involvement with them?
Pattie:
Well I do accept it now because of bringing out my autobiography, but up until
that point I really had no idea that there was such a vast
majority of the public that was still interested in them. And also
I'm aware that there have been so many books that have come out
from various people who might have met them or have known them for
some time. And I just thought that people might say "Oh no,
not another book that's talking about The Beatles." But in fact
mine doesn't really, it just mentions the fact that I met
them.
Digger: But
yours isn't just another book, though is it? I mean, you are particularly
qualified to have an opinion aren't you?
Pattie:
Yes, yes.
Digger:
So what in particular, if anything, did you think you needed to
set the record straight on when writing your book?
Pattie: Nothing particularly,
simply because I'm not someone who combs every paper and the
trashy tabloids to find out if things are written about me. I
mean, at last I can say my name is spelt PATTIE. It's not a great
scandalous thing to sort out.
Digger:
Well, if that's all you had to clear up, it can't be too bad can
it?
Pattie: I've never felt
any sort of resentment that the record hasn't been set straight up
until this point. Actually, I don't really care what the record
says.
Digger: What caused the massive explosion in creativity and popular
culture in the sixties of which you were a part? Will something
like that ever occur again in your view?
Pattie: Not for a hundred years.
(laughs) I think it was a zeitgeist, actually. I felt as if there
was a huge population of the western world, particularly creative
people, who I felt understood the change we were going to go through.
And I remember when I must have been fourteen, fifteen, sixteen
and feeling something's wrong. And I felt there was room for
change. I felt stifled in what I knew and what I had learned up to
that point. I felt there should be something else. And gradually,
when I left school at seventeen I still felt the same but something
was shifting. Obviously the fifties were, I suppose the coming out
of the dire situation that people were left in after the war and
the fifties were still pretty straight-laced and attitudes were
the same. There was colour, but it was extreme colour, like Doris
Day. Too extreme, and so it had to settle down and become more
cool. And much more youthful as well. Also, I think up until that
point teenagers weren't known as teenagers. There were children
and then there were grown-ups.
Digger:
Young adults dressed like their parents.
Pattie:
Yes, exactly, miniature versions of them. What the sixties did was
to create another gap between children and young adults.
Digger: It wasn't just a youth and
adult thing though, was it? The class attitudes also changed in a
revolutionary way. Were you aware of that, because you were
obviously involved in it?
Pattie:
I was and I never understood why my stepfather was just absolutely
furious with the thing I would do to really upset him. That was to
try and put on a fake cockney accent. And he would go absolutely
bananas. I wanted to tease him and I didn't understand why he
found it so unacceptable to have a different accent. And then I
started living in London and meeting all sorts of wonderfully
creative people with various regional accents. And it was part of
them and it was fascinating. And I think that broke down the
class system to an extent, not totally, but to an extent.
Digger:
So what fuelled your interest in eastern philosophy which
ultimately led to The Beatles all becoming interested - was it as
a result of your feeling that things were changing?
Pattie:
Yes, absolutely. And I also thought that there was something more
to learn. And discussing this with a girlfriend we wanted to learn
something from the east. We didn't know what - Zen Buddhism or
what it would be. Anyway, we saw an ad in The Sunday Times saying
if anyone wanted to come for meditation classes and we thought
let's go for that first. So off we went and then when George came
back from his tour we told him all about it and he became quite
interested. And then as luck would have it the Maharishi was coming
to London to give a lecture. And I think Paul heard about the
lecture and in the end, as usual, we all went.
Digger:
What makes you laugh, what makes you sad, what makes you angry and
what makes you hopeful?
Pattie: Being tickled makes me
laugh.
Digger: Say again?
Pattie:
Being tickled.
Digger:
(laughs) Sorry, the line went funny there because I thought you
said 'Being pickled'! (both laugh) It's weird, people are either
not ticklish at all or they're very ticklish.
Pattie:
I don't understand people that aren't ticklish.
Digger:
No, they're very strange!
Pattie:
I think they're terribly clever, unless they're not owning up.
Digger:
I don't think they're that clever, I think it's probably something
they inherited.
Pattie:
...Sad? Hopelessness in a disastrous situation... Angry? Political
stupidity.
Digger: Such
as?
Pattie: I don't mean
ANY politics, I mean some laws that are passed and nobody that you
speak to agrees with it so why are they doing it? What is the
matter with them? How come we all know and we're not even
politicians. We voted them in.... And hopeful? A blue sky on a
winter morning.
Digger: What has been the happiest period of your life?
Pattie: I think probably in my
twenties. I loved it because you can wear what you want and you
know you're pretty attractive and you have lovely friends and
everything seems to be absolutely glorious and there are no
problems whatsoever. And because this doesn't come into your
thinking. And life is just a joyous place and you just imagine
that it will always be like that.
Digger: So what's your
relationship with Penny Junor - it looks pretty good, but how did
it happen?
Pattie: We have
a mutual friend called Ivan Massow who I was on holiday in India
with a couple of years ago. He's only about 38. He was quite
interested in some little anecdotes I told him and he said
"Oh, I think you should write a book." And I said
"Ivan, everyone's always saying that." But he said
"No, I REALLY think you should and I've got JUST the person
that you should meet. " And so when we returned to
England he invited me and Penny to lunch in order to meet and then
he disappeared. And we got on and the thing is she didn't know
anything about the rock and roll world or really much about me or
my sort of lifestyle. She was the daughter of a journalist and
went from school to university and had always been writing. And
she'd only been to one rock concert.
Digger: Has she been to more
since she met you?
Pattie:
No....Yes! One, Cliff Richard! (both laugh)
Digger: Sex, drugs and rock and
roll.
Pattie: And I
thought well this is actually quite a good idea because I'll have
to explain everything to her, as I would to anybody who doesn't
know. And it worked out very well.
Digger: George Harrison was my favourite Beatle because of his musical
ability and spiritual nature but more importantly because of his
sense of humour. Can you share any memories of how this sense of humour manifested
itself?
Pattie: He just loved comedy. He
loved Eric Idle. And he loved Peter Sellers. But George had his
own brand of humour as well. I can see him prancing around and
being funny and imitating... I don't know , he was just very funny
but it's very hard to explain.
Digger:
Are you a nostalgic person or do you tend to look forward?
Pattie: No, I look forward.
Occasionally I'm nostalgic and I'll tell you when. If I SMELL
something and I'm walking or driving and I catch a smell of
something, then I become nostalgic and go back to wherever the
scent originated.
Digger:
You can actually pinpoint a particular place and time with smell
can't you?
Pattie: Yes.
It's lovely.
Pattie and Eric
Digger: What did you think of the Cream reunion concerts last year? Did
you attend/did you see them on DVD?
Pattie: Yes I went. I think it
might have been the last night and it was fantastic.
Digger:
What would you have made of the internet, sat-nav, iPods, mobile
phones and digital cameras if someone had shown them to you in the
sixties?
Pattie: I would
have LOVED them because they would have seemed like toys from
Mars.
Digger:
What do you think of the state of British music these days and
what music do you listen to?
Pattie:
I think it's getting a bit better. I heard the McCartney single
the other day and I think it's fantastic. And a friend of mine was
telling me the album is really good. He's on a good one at the moment.
And I LOVE Amy Winehouse. And I like Lily Allen as well.
Digger:
I saw her last Thursday. She was a guest at Keane's War Child
concert at Brixton and she did three of her own numbers and then a
Keane song with the Keane boys. She's very talented... What is your biggest passion?
Pattie:
Photography and food. I'm MAD about chocolate. With ingredients
like cardomen and vanilla and chili. Sometimes I put the very dark
chocolate in stews. It's a Mexican thing.
Digger:
Like Jane Asher, you inspired several songs. Which songs of The
Beatles, George Harrison and Eric Clapton are your favourites?
Pattie:
I'd have to say that Something is my favourite of George's.
Because it is so beautiful. And I think Layla of Eric's songs was
stunning because it's very passionate and very desperate and soulful
and I just think it's beautifully constructed with a wonderful
melody.
Digger: What was your relationship with Cynthia Lennon and Jane Asher?
Pattie: We were all great friends when we saw each other.
Cynthia and I would go on holiday together with John and George,
so we saw more of each other.
Digger:
Because you'd all be given funny names and go off in different
directions on holiday?
Pattie:
It would always be John and George, then Paul and Ringo. This was
all organised by Brian Epstein. He organised some LOVELY things
for us.
Digger: It's
great, isn't it? All you had to do was show up.
Pattie:
(laughs) Yes, he was like a father figure.

Brian,
Pattie and George on their wedding day


Digger:
What about Yoko?
Pattie:
Yoko was okay. She's not a girl's girl and she was more
distant.
Digger:
What do you think about her 'flying the flag' for John these days?
Pattie:
Well, if this is what she enjoys doing.
Digger:
What are your thoughts on the Heather/Paul debacle that's going on
at the moment?
Pattie: I
think it's absolutely disgraceful. She's so in the public eye all
the time. That outburst was unbelievable and what was worse about
it was that she was saying she was a victim like Princess Diana
and the McCanns. I think that was the worst thing she said. The
press can be very cruel, but the McCanns are courting the press
for a reason and I think that Heather shouldn't be courting it to
get public opinion on her side. Because at the end of the day it
doesn't matter - so she and Paul don't get on. So what? Actually,
who cares?
Digger: It
happens to a lot of us doesn't it? I mean, I've been through a
divorce too, as have you, and we can't always get it right.
Pattie:
No you can't. Just because two people don't get on. That should be
it and it shouldn't really be anybody else's concern. People are
interested to know the grimier, grittier side of their lives.
English people in particular seem to want to know, I don't know
why.
Digger: You said a
wise thing, and I paraphrase. You said that some relationships
only have a set time and then they end naturally and so we should
just celebrate them for the time they lasted.
Pattie:
I believe that, don't you?
Digger:
Definitely. So can you please just describe these people in a few
words?... Pattie Boyd...
Pattie:
(long silence) Oh! (laughs) Sorry, I thought you were going
to talk some more!
Digger:
(laughs) Ha! You had a back-to-school moment there and stood to
attention like you'd been caught smoking behind the bike sheds!
Can you describe yourself in a few words?
Pattie:
I'm honest. I have a good sense of humour. And I love my friends.
And I LURV food.
Digger:
George Harrison...
Pattie:
(thinks) A very kind person, very funny...
Digger:
Would you call him spiritual?
Pattie:
Yes, actually I'd put that first. Very spiritual, funny, kind.
Pattie and George
Digger:
Eric Clapton...
Pattie: A
great guitarist.
Digger:
David Bailey...
Pattie:
Fantastic photographer.
Digger:
John Lennon....
Pattie:
(thinks hard) Wicked sense of humour.
Digger:
Paul McCartney...
Pattie:
(thinks very hard) Paul... he's difficult, like a butterfly, hard
to pin him down. Paul is clever.
Digger:
Mick Jagger...
Pattie:
Mick's naughty. He liked to have fun.
Digger:
Please tell us about your plans for the future.
Pattie:
I'm hoping to go to India to do a photographic story. I want to
get some interest from a magazine or two and do a story on
jewellery. It's just an idea I have that might be interesting - a
sort of photo-journalist type story I'd like to do.
Digger:
Well, I told you this would only take half an hour, and I'm
looking at my clock now and it says half past five. And we started
at five. So I was bang on!
Pattie:
No, hang on David. You haven't asked ALL of your questions. You
haven't asked me who I'd like to have round for dinner.
Digger:
Oh, sorry. That's my fault. Well done. I missed that one!
Pattie:
I've done my homework, you see.
Digger:
I'm slapping my wrist here, can you hear it? Tell me who you'd
like to have round for dinner, and why.
Pattie:
Bill Clinton. Because I understand he's not only brilliantly
clever and a great speaker but he's terribly sexy. Henry the
eighth, because I would be fascinated to see just how much he
could eat. (Digger laughs) Audrey Hepburn - I'd like to just gaze
at her beauty. Brigitte Bardot...
Digger:
Well, I'm with you there! You know John had a big thing about
Brigitte Bardot?
Pattie:
Oh yes, I remember! I was there then. When she was young she was
so... well, you say what you'd describe her as...
Digger:
Well, phwoar! just about does it, I think. In the same way as
Marilyn Monroe was. Just being on the screen was enough, it didn't
matter what they were doing.
Pattie: Absolutely.
Digger:
Brigitte shares something in common with Doris Day, Virginia
McKenna and Alexandra Bastedo, you know? They have all gone from
being actresses to running animal sanctuaries.
Pattie: Oh
really? I think probably humans let them down.
 |
 |
|
|
| Oscar
Wilde |
Henry
VIIIth |
|
|
 |
 |
|
|
| Batman |
Audrey
Hepburn |
|
|
 |
 |
|
|
| Bill
Clinton |
Brigitte
Bardot |
Digger:
... So who else would be at the party?
Pattie:
Oscar Wilde. Because of his ability to twist words around and he
would be utterly amusing. And finally Batman.
Digger:
Batman?! (laughs) Any particular actor playing him or just Batman
himself?
Pattie: Just
Batman himself. The idea of Batman swooping in for dinner!
Digger:
What would you cook?
Pattie:
Oh, God, with Henry there I'd need to have an awful lot of food.
I'd definitely have a roast goose, with Austrian stuffing. And I'd
have lots of starters, maybe three types of cocktails with canapés.
And loads of chocolate puddings.
Digger:
A local restaurant here has chocolate spoons with the coffee.
Pattie:
Wonderful. I have occasionally just dropped the whole chocolate
into my coffee and stirred it.
Digger:
Well, that's the lot Pattie. It was fun and I really appreciate
your time. I'm a big Beatles fan and I have interviewed Sir George
Martin, Astrid and Klaus and Sid Bernstein in the past. Sid is a
big fan of Thornton's chocolates. Did you ever meet him?
Pattie:
Yes! Do you know what I met him at my book launch in New York. Sid
turned up and it was so sweet of him and I was so honoured.
Digger:
Thanks very much Pattie and I'll make sure I spell your name right
too.
Pattie: My pleasure.
It was nice to talk to you. Bye David.

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|
Pattie Boyd interview. November 2007.
Many thanks to Pattie for her kindness
with this interview. And to Maura and Ginny for helping set it
up. More information at www.pattieboyd.co.uk
Click
here for our review of Pattie's book Wonderful Today
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