You are in the Special Features section - Eddie Phillips of The Creation

 

Digger's interview with
Eddie Phillips ( part two )

The Creation

 

Digger: Which, of course, Jimmy Page did do with Zeppelin. And he gets mentioned when people talk about you.

Eddie: Yeah, well the old violin bow. He'd probably be the first to tell you that he nicked it off me. ( laughs ) Like you say, people see people do things.......

Digger: It's been happening for years, hasn't it? I mean, that's what all the R&B groups were doing - totally stealing what was a black American musical style.

Eddie: Absolutely.

Digger: Doing it well!

Eddie: Look at The Animals. It was, like, wow, they're playing Rhythm and Blues. But hang on a minute - who's this Muddy Waters and Jimmy Reed and people like that?

Digger: So who were your musical influences?

Eddie: Well, people like that, really. Jimmy Reed. Tamla was beginning at that time and was all part of the London mod scene.

Digger: Did you ever appear on Ready, Steady, Go?

Eddie: Yeah.

Digger: I don't think that one has survived, has it?

Eddie: I think it has.

Digger: I don't remember seeing it when Channel 4 showed them in the 80s. The ones that Dave Clark had bought up. I didn't see The Creation.

Eddie: We were on the same show as Little Richard. From there we went on a tour with him for two or three weeks around the UK. And, he signed the back of my big red Gibson guitar. 

Digger: The one that was knackered?

Eddie: Yup. It had holes in the front, Little Richard's autograph on the back.

Digger: Have you still got that?

Eddie: No! By the time I'd finished with it, it was a weird looking guitar. I wish I still had it.

Digger: Have you got much memorabilia from those days?

Eddie: No. I've got an old white jacket that I wore when we toured Germany with Cream and the band on that one wore white jackets and purple polka dot shirts.

Digger: I've got some album covers here and it's all pretty cool gear that you're wearing.

Eddie: Yeah. It was great stuff. Really, if you came from another planet you'd look at that and say...

Together: "Hey, that's cool!" ( Both laugh )

Digger: Because mod has really survived and there's an undercurrent now. Paul Weller was keeping it going in the 80s. Did you ever come across a band called The Action?

Eddie: No, never actually played with The Action but we were booked pretty much on the same circuit as The Action, Geno Washington and the Ram Jam band, Brian Auger Trinity with 'Rod the mod', Julie Driscoll who used to be the singer there and Long John Baldrey. We were all part of that thing.

Digger: Why were there US and UK versions of How Does It Feel To Feel?

Eddie: I don't know. One of life's mysteries!

Digger: They're not so different from one another to say "that was because the Americans won't be shocked by that or will hate this or that's more of a British feel" ..... There's more of your bowing technique and feedback on one version, I can't recall which one but that's about it really. 

Eddie: It's just a different mix, isn't it?

Digger: What are your happiest memories of the sixties?

Eddie: England winning the World Cup, I think. That must be one of the defining things of the 1960s. 

Digger: Are you still a big football fan?

Eddie: No, I've never been a fan.

Digger: But you got wrapped-up in all of that?

Eddie: I just got wrapped-up in the day. But the everyday league and what have you I'm not bothered with.

Digger: What else from the 60s?

Eddie: Musically, The Creation did a few really good gigs. Had some great times together, apart from the fact that everybody used to say that we always argued - which we probably did. Let's face it, who didn't?

Digger: The Kinks - the two Davies Brothers famously used to fight all of the time on stage.

Eddie: That's true. I don't think we were any different from anybody else really. But we had some great times and some great adventures together. I'd say when we did get back together and saw each other for the first time in 30 years a few years ago a lot of those things came to light again.

Digger: Had you changed much?

Eddie: I don't think we had. Your character and personality is set in you, isn't it?

Digger: You get over the shock of - "Oh, he's gone a bit grey" or "he's put on a few pounds".

Eddie: But when it came to it we could still play. And the guy in The Melody Maker said it was the only non-embarrassing reunion he'd ever been to......

Digger: Praise indeed!

Eddie: ..... So it must have been alright. 'Cos usually they love to slag something like that off, don't
they? "The old farts, why don't they leave it alone?"

Digger: No, I think Creation are a little bit special, to be honest. I think there's a little bit of snobbery in your favour. They think you should have been bigger than you were and were definitely very influential.

Eddie: Oh, that's nice. But I think if that's the case then I can see why people might still like it. It's like the underdog thing.

Digger: That's a British thing.

Eddie: It is.

Digger: Can you give brief descriptions of the other members of the band?

Eddie: Kenny was a great lyricist. Really good, really sharp. Ken had a wicked sense of humour and I think he was a bit the opposite to me in that respect and that's probably what gave us a good writing team. Two different points of view on things.

Digger:  What, do you mean you're serious or do you mean your sense of humour isn't wicked?

Eddie: Mine is probably a bit more run-of-the-mill whereas Ken had that sarcastic, cynical thing.

Digger: Can be good, if channeled right.

Eddie: Yeah, yeah ..... Jack, he was a pretty good drummer. They were all good guys and I got on well with all of them.

Digger: Apart from when you argued!

Eddie: That's right! But then again, it's like a family. They fight and kick the shit out of each other. When someone else starts running down their family they say  "Who are you talking about?! That's my Dad" or whatever. I think we were all just normal characters. I used to see Bob from time to time. In fact, we had a hit record a few years ago.

Digger: What was that?

Eddie: We wrote the Hillbilly song for Emmerdale.

Digger: You're joking.

Eddie: No.

Digger: I can't say that I know that one. Is this the cast of Emmerdale?

Eddie: Yeah, yeah, a few years ago they recorded a song called Hillbilly Rock Hillbilly Roll and that was one of mine. It was just a thing I'd had here for a while and it was quite good 'cos it stayed in the UK singles chart for 14 weeks. That was in '97, I think, must have been '97. 

Digger: Did you try to do any more since?

Eddie: Not really, no. We sort of think, oh that was nice, and then we go back to obscurity!

Digger: What I noticed as I was talking to Jim, as you know - Jim McCarty, he just seems really laid back now. He says he wasn't always that way so do you think you all mellow with age? 

Eddie: He probably got used to the fact that sometimes when you want something to happen and you're working for something to happen, it doesn't happen. And more often than not, when you're not thinking about, you're not concerned and you're doing something entirely different, something will crop up and it'll happen.

Digger: Why is that? Sod's law, isn't it?

Eddie: I don't know why that is but it seems like you'll never ever get one, two, three, four, five, six come up as lottery numbers. I don't think so anyway and if it does, I'll be very surprised. It's a weird thing, isn't it?

Digger: You don't think it's this reaping to sow sort of thing. If you try to get things done and you put yourself about a bit and try to get things happening then it's got to have some sort of a pay back. You don't think that always follows then?

Eddie: Not necessarily but it shouldn't stop you from trying.  I think you should, if anybody reads the interview, I mean young musicians.

Digger: That was one of the questions at the end actually, what advice would you give to them?

Eddie: Just never stop trying, never stop trying.

Digger: And keep enjoying. It's the main thing.

Eddie: Well, at the end of it all, I know it's one of your last questions by what would you say to any young people. I'd say as long as you're happy in what you're doing and you're getting a buzz out of it, that's as good as it gets, and sometimes it can't be no better than that.

Digger: But they've all picked up that instrument to start with 'cos they're trying to emulate somebody else. That's always the motivator isn't it.

Eddie: Yes.

Digger: Can you describe yourself and tell us what makes you laugh, what makes you angry and what makes you sad?

Eddie: Describe myself ...... oh!

Digger: If you hate these questions just tell me and we'll go on.

Eddie: To be honest I don't know how to answer this question. Just, I think I'm probably someone who'll never ever know when to put the guitar down. I'll never know when to hang it on the wall. Maybe a man who never stops working, that'll be the day. I still love music.

Digger: That's good, isn't it.

Eddie: Yeah, I still love it. What makes me angry? I think what makes me angry and sad I think probably is the same for anybody else. People can make you angry and people can make you happy and people can make you sad. 

Digger: Yeah, they seem to be at the bottom of most of the things that go wrong, don't they? .............. Kenny did a stage show which was an amalgam of Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix and Rolf Harris! But with his aerosol painting and setting it on fire. How did this evolve and did he go to art school?

Eddie: No, no he never went to art school. This was a thing which I reckon that, we were going on one of these tours. I think it was a Walker brothers tour but it might have been another one. I'm not sure what is was called, we were driving in the van and 'Painter Man' had just been released and I honestly think I got the idea of painting but I can't put my hand on my heart and say it was definitely me. Because someone else would say "No, it was me"  and I'd say "Perhaps it was you". Anyway, we came up with this idea of while we were doing Painter Man and I was raving around with the violin bow that we'd
have this framed canvass and Ken could do a painting.   And when we got to Great Yarmouth and it was on a Sunday - the only place that was open was a garage which was selling the aerosols and our roadies managed to get some wood and knock-up a big frame and the got some paper and made a massive screen about ten feet square. This was put just behind where we stood, behind Jack. And it all started from there. We never set light to it at first because we didn't think about it and then we had this real nutter of a roadie that would set this smoke stuff off - it was in the days before dry ice. And one night he just totally blew his brains - too many Scotch and cokes wasn't it, the mod's drink - and the painting went up as well. And it was like total madness. This whole place was alight and we're still playing. Caretakers rushing on with water and I'm shouting "Don't chuck the water" because of all the electrics. Running around looking for sand......

Digger: And then it became part of the act?

Eddie: Yeah.

Digger: But how did you get booked into venues when this was all going on?

Eddie: Well, we never told them!

Digger: ( laughs ) And they didn't phone each other up?

Eddie: No, and surprisingly enough only in one place we had to pay for the curtains. And in one place in Germany we were playing in a circus and it was a rock concert and we played in the ring. And they had a massive mat on top of the sawdust and unfortunately the mat caught alight and we all had to run for it. The Germans being very efficient rushed on and put it out and then we got questioned by the German police afterwards. They said "You will never come back to Munich" !!!! And it was very sad and we all spent a total of three minutes being sorry about that!!!!!

Digger: It was like Basil Fawlty to Polly. "You'll never waitress in Torquay again!"

Eddie: Yeah. I was so sorry, but it was all in the line of fun and rock and roll!!! And we were doing that kind of thing and we really were the band that was doing that stuff first and a short while afterwards The Move started smashing up cars.

Digger: The High Numbers had changed their name.....

Eddie: The Who and Pete's guitar through his speakers....

Digger: That was supposed to have been an accident to start with, he just had a low ceilinged venue one evening.

Eddie: Yeah. I think all the great things in rock and roll probably start as a bit of an accident. "Oh, we'll keep that in".

Digger: How did you go about writing your songs? Where did you get the inspiration from?

Eddie: I was always doing melodies and Kenny would always come up with the lyrics. I'd sit down first and figure out the melody and what I'd think should happen where and then sit down with Ken and play a few chords. Like with Making Time, I'd go "Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba" - I want some lines there and he'd go "alright" and that's how we'd do it. Most of the songs we wrote were done in a very short time. They always seemed to be the best ones. 

Digger: Which ones are you most proud of? Is it the obvious ones?

Eddie: Not really. I read this question and I thought that's strange because I've never really stopped writing songs and I've got a room downstairs full of them and there's some things on my shelf that have never seen the light of day that I'm very proud of as songs and recordings.

Digger: What's going to happen to those?

Eddie: I don't know!

Digger: Is there any chance of them appearing on an album?

Eddie: I'd have to look at them and pull them apart a bit. There are some great guitar riffs down there.

Digger: Do they show signs of the decade that they were written in, whether it be 60s, 70, 80s?

Eddie: Yeah. With the chord sequences of songs and depending on the sound of the guitar you can probably tell what era it comes from. If you think 60s you can almost get back there, musically. Songs are songs and you can play them in a number of different styles and there's probably lots of stuff downstairs that I could use. But we'll see!

Digger: Who knows?

Eddie: Yeah.

 

Eddie Phillips with the bow

Digger: So what sort of feedback and following are you getting from youngsters these days?

Eddie: Well. When we did our reunion thing which was '94, '95 .... 5 years ago now, it was quite weird really 'cos there were loads of kids there and they all knew the words. And they were singing along with us. 

Digger: That's exactly what Jim McCarty said about his stuff - he was surprised.

Eddie: It is surprising.

Digger: I don't see why it should be. All the material is available on cd and whatever and all sorts of media now .... this was in the UK was it?

Eddie: Yeah.

Digger: There's a pretty devoted mod following......

Eddie: Yeah, but that never happened then is what I mean. 'Cos we were just playing the songs of the day. And all these years later you do the stuff again and all the kids know it intimately. It's great, innit? I think it's really nice. And we were getting people coming up to us.....

Digger: Asking what you meant by such and such a lyric and how did you work out such and such a sequence and you're thinking "I don't know!"

Eddie: Yeah, that is true actually. You don't really know why or how you just did it and there it was. I picked up a few Creation sites on the internet.

Digger: You didn't choose a very good name, if you don't mind me saying so! Type in Creation and you get about 6,000,000 hits!!!

Eddie: Yeah. You've got to sort them out, haven't you?

Digger: Some bands, like Rolling Stones, you'll only get a few thousand hits but Creation brings back stuff about the bible and all sorts. I'm only pulling your leg.

Eddie: No, it's true. I picked up a site the other day and they said I'd died a couple of years ago. 

Digger: I saw that one and I emailed them saying "Rumours of Eddie's death are greatly exaggerated" but I didn't get a reply.

Eddie: ( laughs ) I emailed them and told them it was bad for my image.

Digger: Actually, it might be very good for your image. Dead pop stars they achieve an even bigger cult status.

Eddie: Maybe I should play on it. Become legendary.

Digger: But you won't get many bookings though.

Eddie: True.

Digger: Talking about the internet, do you use it and do you keep in contact with people through email a lot?

Eddie: There's a few people who have picked up on my email and they contact me now and again.

Digger: Are you going to have a website?

Eddie: Yes, I'm working on that now and it's taking a while as I hope to have a new cd of 'old and new' Creation songs! Some unreleased stuff. I'm working on material I've dug up and so it should be quite interesting.

Digger: A fan forum?

Eddie: Possibly. I think it's nice to have a website. I've seen a few and I think it's really good that people can get on there and read about, and possibly contact you as well. I like to talk to people about the music.

Digger: It's good when the stars are accessible to people and I think that's what the net has done.

Eddie: I think it's essential. That's what's been sad about all the other years. You know you get some people that really dig what you're doing and never get a chance to speak to you. I think it's great that this has come along. Opens it up doesn't it?

Digger: What are you listening to at the moment?

Eddie: Everything and anything. I like classical, sometimes I like to listen to that new country stuff. It's quite rocky.

Digger: Have you been influenced by Don Craine there, having worked with him in the British Invasion All Stars?

Eddie: Not really. Some of that - what's that guy? Steve Earl, I mean he writes some really good stuff, he's got a nice style about him and it's really different. A bit of a renegade country. I'm not too keen about the packaged Nashville country. It's like whatever music you pick, you'll like some of it and not others. Like an album, if you like half a dozen tracks then you're lucky. I saw the Sex Pistols film The Filth And The Fury and they used a Creation track in that - Through My Eyes. They used it when Johnny Rotten was walking down the King's Road and I was listening to some of their stuff, you know and I thought "This is really good". 'Cos he had a great way of singing, it was almost like he was just doing the song. I came out the cinema and thought how good it was.

Digger: And you wouldn't mind having a go at it that way?

Eddie: Yeah, they didn't give a monkey's about anything and were just enjoying themselves. That was a nice side of it.

Digger: Their versions of God Save The Queen and My Way were a bit 'unorthodox'.

Eddie: Yeah, maybe you know. Not everything they did I thought was great but some of the stuff in the film.

Digger: They were a backlash, weren't they, because many of the bands had got too big for their boots and we had all these supergroups in the early 70s. Then these kids just wanted to make music more accessible. That was the theory, anyway.

Eddie: That's what was nice about it. You had these superheroes which nobody could get to or touch and yet kids still wanted to go down the guitar shop, buy some gear, plug it in, make a racket and try and be famous. And that's what they did. And power to them.

Digger: Where do you think it's going then?

Eddie: Well, that's a funny question. When you look at the mainstream things. The boy and girl bands.

Digger: Oh dear!

Eddie: It actually makes you despair.

Digger: I liked Take That, at least the writing of Gary Barlow - they at least had one person who could write a decent song. And I like what Robbie has done since.

Eddie: I do. I think he is one of the very few guys that has come out of that thing really with credentials. Unfortunately, I feel sorry for kids in a way. I mean, when we were young we used to look at the charts and you could go down to the shop, buy some gear and you could play those songs.

Digger: Buy some sheet music as well.

Eddie: Yeah, or just listen and learn it by ear. But kids can't do that anymore. Most of the stuff they're hearing it sounds like it's all coming out of the same studio. It's all got the same sound to it. I don't know where it's going. I'd like to see kids back playing stuff again. I know there are kids out there playing but they don't seem to be able to break through.

Digger: A lot of them are computer experts rather than musicians.

Eddie: Yeah, there's a bit of that yeah. I dare say in time you'll get three or four kids come along and they'll whack out some rock music and find an angle that makes it acceptable today. And they'll freshen it up a bit ..... Let's hope it won't be too long.

Digger: Well, it's been great talking to you, very interesting listening to your reminiscences. Will you be able to keep me updated about your website and any other 'developments'.

Eddie: Yeah. It's been nice talking to you.

Digger: What about tours?

Eddie: Not really. I do work quite a lot. That's what I do.

Digger: 'Cos you left the scene for a while didn't you?

Eddie: Yes, in the '70's  I had some time out and I got to know P. P. Arnold and I played bass with her band for a while, TNT, and that was quite fun. That lasted for about 18 months, I think.

Digger: What's that like playing bass when you've been the front man for quite a while?

Eddie: Well, quite honestly, playing lead guitar in a band where you're doing all your own songs is the true way to do it. To play lead guitar for others you need to be able to see it more like a job. I think, when you're working for somebody else and playing other people's songs, quite honestly I don't think it really matters what you play, as long as you play it. But the guitar was such a self-expressive thing. It was almost like your own thing and you didn't really want to do it for anybody else, if you know what I mean. 

Digger: Oh I see, so that's why you chose to. You were happy to play bass because you were just anonymous.

Eddie: Yeah. It's not just that, bass is a great instrument. It really is a great instrument. I enjoyed that.

Digger: Have you ever played drums?

Eddie: No, not in public!

Digger: You've played all the others.

Eddie: That's it, yeah ( he laughs ). I remember one gig we did, one of the memorable gigs we did, we played, we did a night with the Bee Gees in St. Paul's cathedral. 

Digger: God! What was that all about?

Eddie: It was a Save The Children fund and it was a charity night...

Digger: And who's 'we'?

 

The Creation - Eddie in the red jacket

 

 

Eddie: It would have been P.P Arnold and her band was called TNT and we were the warm up act for the Bee Gees and we went on and did what we did, but I was .... the song we played first, I can't remember what it was, but it starts off with a bass, with a bass line for about, I don't know, about 32 bars or something. I think I was probably the first person to play an electric instrument in St. Paul's and we were playing right down the aisle, as I played these notes the sound was hitting those whacking great doors at the end and coming back to us. It was all a bit weird and you almost felt like you shouldn't
be there. It was a strange one, that. I don't think they've had anything there since. I really don't.

Digger: They were worried about structural damage.

Eddie: They did mend the roof after we were there. Mind you, we didn't set light to anything though.

Digger: The Bee Gees could really hit the high notes so they could probably do more damage than your guitar.

Eddie: That's right, yeah.

Digger: So how did you get on with them or was it just a one off?

Eddie: That was pretty much just a one off, really. The thing is, in the sixties we were out and about with every big name that there was.

Digger: Do you keep in touch with many of them?

Eddie: No, I never did. I remember playing at John Lewis's up in Oxford Street. They used to have a social club and we used to play up there on a Friday night and we used to do it with people like Brian Auger's Trinity, with Rod Stewart and all that crowd I was telling you about. We had to get changed in a broom cupboard, I think. And Rod would be in there putting his stage suit on. We were all just normal people, mates and never thought anything of it. A few years later this guy's a mega-superstar. When I used to hear and watch him I always thought he was going to be a little bit special. He had a style about him.

Digger: There's got to be an element of luck as well.

Eddie: The thing is, it's like everything in life, I think. To be really successful you need a bit of luck, the talent and everything else that goes with being able to handle it all. You need lots of things happening to you at once. And if you get all the ingredients right, with the right songs, at the right time, with the right people - you're gonna make it. Maybe with The Creation maybe one of those things was missing - maybe the luck side of it.

Digger: When I told people I was talking to Eddie Phillips from The Creation I got two reactions. "Who?" and "Cor, wow you're lucky!" It's funny how you get the two extremes.

Eddie: ( laughs ) Yeah. It makes the world go round.

Digger: Please keep in touch and let us know about your website and any other news so I can
post it on the site.

Eddie: I will do.

Digger: Thanks for that Eddie. Bye.

Eddie: Bye.

---

 

My big thanks to Eddie for the interview.