|
Digger's interview
with Alan Simpson, OBE - part two
Steptoe and Son and Tony Hancock
Alan: What happens when you're on a deadline is
that you've GOT to do something so you start writing
whether it's good, bad or indifferent. You put stuff
in that if you weren't under a deadline you'd say
"Well, I'm not sure about that." But when you're on
a deadline it's warts and all and you hope your technique
will get you through it. Which of course 9 times out
of 10 is exactly what happens. Your technique covers
up the cracks and you get a workmanlike job. It's then
up to the actors to make it sound better than it is.
Digger: Would you say your writing partnership has
been like a marriage?
Alan: Absolutely. I mean both of us are widowers now
but when we were married I think we spent more time
in each other's company working than with our
respective wives.
Digger: Would the wives say "You never see
me!........"
Alan: Not really ( Laughs ) I'm sure they felt that.
I mean Ray had some kids - I didn't have any
children but it's always a problem.
Digger: Well, you were working for a living, you
weren't
down the pub! Even if you were it was research!
Alan: If they phoned up the office, there we were
if they rang at 9.00 at night. But that was because
we were slow writers and we used to take great pains
over everything we did. We'd spend an hour over
one line sometimes. To think of the right line or
sometimes days over the development of the script.
3 days without writing a line, you know.
Digger: Thats' very brave, actually. Talking about
having deadlines.
Alan: Only when you've got 3 days to spare,
otherwise
you'd have to get on with it.
Digger: I read in one article about 'The armful' in
The Blood Donor. About how you got the wording right
there and went through all permutations.
Alan: Oh! One was doing this all the time. The idea
would
be "That's an armful" which is funny but wait a minute
"That's nearly an armful" is funnier because he's
specifying then "Very nearly an armful" is even funnier
because he's bringing it down to a scientific level!
( Digger laughs )
Digger: And then what happens when it gets sold
abroad
and they translate it?!
Alan: Oh well. Things like that, you rely on your
translator. I mean French, German - the idea would
still be funny but the 'very nearly an armful' would
probably be lost in translation.
Digger: Do your characters or situations ever come
from personal experience?
Alan: Yes. Oh yeah, in subjects usually. The Blood
Donor
of course. In the sanatorium we used to have blood tests
once a month and in those days they used to have
needles the size of bloody telegraph poles!
Digger: These days "Just a little prick" -
you wouldn't
get away with that.
Alan: Absolutely, absolutely. The whole hospital
set-up went back to our sanatorium days. The Radio
Ham was virtually true. The bloke who lived next door
to me in the first house I had when I was married was
a dentist and he was a radio ham. And all night - the early
hours of the morning - was the best time for reception,
at least in those days. So that was directly from
personal experience. The other thing I remember
we did was for Yorkshire TV - a Comedy Playhouse
or Galton & Simpson comedy with Leonard Rossiter called
'I tell you, it's Burt Reynolds'.
Digger: When was that?
Alan: Paul Merton did it again recently. That was
based on a friend of ours EXACTLY - it was just
what happened. I don't think it was Burt Reynolds
but he was watching the TV and he said "That
was so and so" and everybody else said "No, it
wasn't" and he said "It was, I tell you, it was him!"
and the argument went on. In the end he telephoned
The Daily Telegraph, he phoned the BBC, ringing
around because he wouldn't take no for an answer.
Digger: Fanatical.
Alan: Fanatical. And we just carried it forward so
that in the end he rings up Burt Reynolds in our one.
Burt says "It wasn't me, I never made that film" and
he still says "It was you! IT WAS YOU!" ( Both laugh )
Digger: That's like 'The Last Page' sort of
fanaticism isn't it?
Alan: Yes, it is. So that's two that came from
personal experience. And obviously lots
of bits and pieces. I mean in the Steptoe thing there
were examples of it. One was told stories by one's
relatives particularly.
Digger: Do you watch these on video much?
Alan: Yeah, on TV sometimes. And on video when
they come out.
Digger: And what do you think?
Alan: Yeah, I think a lot of them have stood up
well.
I think the problem is that most of them
are in black and white.
Digger: Very fuzzy some of them as well.
Alan: Yeah, particularly the Hancock ones. They can
be cleaned up a bit. The B.F.I. have done a lot of
sterling work on a lot of them. They weren't on
videotape - they were on a format called AMPEX
which deteriorates every time it's shown. And then
they put them onto film but when it goes onto
film you're putting on the quality that you're
left with. The B.F.I. have managed to clean up some
of them and sometimes I'm quite pleased with that
part of it. The thing with the Bilko series,
for example, is that they were filmed from the
word go. That's why their quality is so good even
though they're black and white.
Digger: Do you think that comedy can be,
or should be, analysed?
Alan: I don't see why not. But I don't know
how much value it's got.
Digger: Are there any 'building blocks' to comedy?
Alan: I think the only thing you can learn is
technique.
Construction, maybe. You can tell the difference
between people who do after dinner speeches
who tell the same story.
Digger: That's something that you do, isn't it?
After dinner speaking, I mean!
Alan: What I mean is that you can have two people
telling
the same story - one with the technique of timing and then
you have somebody who is a complete amateur
telling the same story....... it's exactly the same story
but you can't do the "Anyway, it seems there was this
chap...." - you just can't do it that way.
Digger: And the lines will look rather bland
on the page.
Alan: Absolutely.
Digger: And then somebody like Bob Monkhouse can
twist it and make it funny.
Alan: It's timing, it's intonation. All these are
technical
things. But I think when you start analysing it's
'baby and bathwater' time.
Digger: Do you think you've got it in your head -
as you learn your craft, these devices and tricks?
Python used to turn situations on their head a lot
like the sketch with the miner in a suit and his dad
in working clothes moaning about his son not knowing
what hard work is. "Working down t'pit, you big
Jessie!" and so on.
Alan: Oh yes, it's a classic construction, turning
things around - it was like our 'Have you ever wondered'
with the doctors and patients. That's been going
on for years and years.
Digger: ....... And puns as well.
Alan: Puns, that's a linguistic thing. With some
languages
it's harder to pun than others.
Digger: There's also the running gags through a
series.
Alan: It's another classical thing you learn very
early.
We used to use that quite often.
Digger: In Fawlty Towers, for example, there's a lot
going on, on different levels, but the audience is
given a warm feeling knowing the characters and
the things that have gone before.
Alan: That's right. But, to me, none of this is
analysing.
This is observing how to do things. To actually analyse
in Freudian terms - you know, you can analyse
the humour out of it.
Digger: Yeah, I don't mean tearing things apart.
Alan: Humour is an instinctive thing, actually,
whereas
drama is not. Ray and I have often said that drama
is far more universal than comedy, certainly verbal
comedy, inasmuch as everybody cries at the same
things, more or less. 90% of the population will cry at
the same thing but only half of the population will
laugh at the same thing. The most successful shows
that have ever been done there's always 5% who cannot
stand the show. ( Digger laughs ) We used to find that
when the BBC used to do 'appreciation index' with
the a, b, c, d, e's where the a's think it's wonderful
and with a successful show the biggest would be around
about the b's and the c's. When you get down to the
g's, the lowest, "Hate it!" - it didn't matter what
show it was there was always about 5% sitting
there fuming.
Sid James and Tony Hancock
Digger: They just might not have a sense of humour.
Alan: Possibly, yeah.
Digger: I know people like that! I feel sorry
for them, I really do.
Alan: As Ray always says "You can accuse people
of being anything, a homosexual, a philistine but
one thing you can't accuse anybody of is not having
a sense of humour" - they get very upset!
Digger: What do you think of the US comedies?
Alan: The current crop I think are
absolutely wonderful.
Digger: What do you think of this idea of having
huge teams of writers?
Alan: Well, I couldn't work like that, I must
say,
unless I really had to. If I was an American perhaps
I'd get used to it. But the way Ray and I used to
work, it just wouldn't work at all. If we were in a
team I think we'd just be sitting there
contributing nothing.
Digger: Technically, you WERE in a team,
just a very small team
Alan: Yes, but we worked at our own pace.
Digger: But you two produced all those great shows
and had all that success and then there are these
huge teams of writers - the shows are good but
they're not exceptional.
Alan: I think Frasier is an absolute GEM of a
show - beautifully played, beautifully written.
A lovely show. The difference is, you see, the reason
they have such big teams of writers is that you have
large series - Americans are not interested in
anything that has under 24 shows in a series. Well,
in the old days of Bilko and Lucy and so on it was 39
- it was 39 weeks a year then you got 13 weeks holiday
and then another 39. It is just physically impossible
for one team of writers like Ray and I to do that.
Our series would last seven weeks - you'd do the seven,
have six months off, do another seven, have six
months off and do another seven. Now, you CAN do
that. If we were asked to do 39, or even 24 and to
keep up the standard, well, it's just impossible.
So that's where teams of writers came in. They all
sit around a table and knock out basic plots and then
one or two of them will go away and write that one up,
another two will write another one up and the results
come in and they all go over it and alter it. And it
WORKS. And they're still writing the day of
transmission. In this country the actors wouldn't
have that. You couldn't have given Hancock a line
change five minutes before he went on. It took him
all week to get them in the right order as it is!
It would completely throw them. The Americans are
used to it, they change and relearn no problems.
It's a totally different culture.
Digger: With the exception of Benny Hill and Monty
Python, British comedy hasn't done too well in the US.
Alan: No, because they don't understand what
we're talking about......
Digger: But WHY is that? Because WE understand
what THEY'RE talking about....
Alan: We're used to it, aren't we?
Digger: But why aren't THEY used to it?
Alan: They're not exposed to England. If you go to
our high street cinema, it's 95% American. We
know the difference between Brooklyn and southern
- but if you go into Texas and have somebody speaking
from Birmingham - they will be bemused.
Digger: They'll say "Are you Australian?!"
Alan: Exactly.
Digger: So what did you think when Steptoe was
'converted' into American?
Alan: Well, it wasn't really, was it? They first did
what they call a half series, and they did 14.
And 11 of them were based on our scripts - the next four
series they did were nothing to do with Ray and
I at all. It was a completely foreign show and
became a gang show. They brought in regular characters
- his sister-in-law, the friend next door.......
Digger: It was their loss, wasn't it? I think the
situations and the comedy all get lost.
Alan: It lost the claustrophobic thing - the Waiting
For Godot thing that the original Steptoes had, yeah.
Digger: They did the same with Reggie Perrin, as
well.
C.J. ended-up being a 26 year old executive
- it was just spoiled.
Alan: That's right. They even changed Basil Fawlty
into a WOMAN, didn't they?
Digger: Yes, you're right.
Alan: And with Ab Fab, they were going to do it with
no drugs, no alcohol......
Digger: ( Laughs ) Men Behaving..... A little bit
naughty!
Alan: They did do Men Behaving Badly. With One
Foot In The Grave - Bill Cosby did it and they
said "We can't have him RETIRED" - he's got
to have a job ( laughs ).
Digger: .... And he can't be too old!
Alan: And he can't be too old! Yeah.
Digger: So how worried were you and Ray when Tony
Hancock decided to go it alone?
Alan: Well, this is another myth that has gradually
grown up to become fact. What ACTUALLY happened
was that we had a reasonable success with the first
film which was The Rebel in 1960. And we had a 3
picture contract with ABPC ( Associated British
Pictures ) and The Rebel was the first and it was
fairly successful for a first film. And Tony was
well aware that the second film was vitally important
to his future and he wanted to get out of doing his
TV series - he wanted to become an international
film star. That was the way he wanted it to move.
And so the second film was going to be of the utmost
importance. So Ray and I spent 6 months with him
on trying to sort out the second film script and each
time we came up with an idea and he'd say "Yes, that's
great". And Ray and I would go away and we'd start
working on it and on one we got about a third of
the way through and he phoned up and he said "I've
been thinking about this idea and I'm not sure
if it's right. It's not international enough. I think
we can do better." And so we went "Right." Stopped
it, met up again, came up with another idea, same thing
happened and this time we'd got about half way through
it before he...... So on the third time Ray and I came up
with another idea which he thought "This is it, great."
It was a sort of 'Mr. Hulot's holiday' thing - lots of
mime. "That's it, we've got it." So Ray and I said
"Right, this time let's write the whole script before
you have second thoughts." and he said "Righto." So we
wrote the script, which has never been seen, never
been done. We sent it to him and he read it. And we
KNEW that when we didn't hear after 2 or 3 days that
he didn't like it. Tony was a bit of a coward and he
didn't like to tell you. So as the days went on we
knew that he was trying to pluck up enough courage
to tell us that he didn't like it. He finally phoned and
he said "I've read the script." and we said
"Yeah."
And he said "Well, what do you think?" and that
confirmed it that he didn't like it. So Ray - he's
got a shorter fuse than me - he said "Well, what's
wrong with it?!" and Tony said "Well, I'm not sure."
He said "I don't think it's right." We said to Tony
"Well, we can't just spend..... it's 6 months now and
we haven't been earning any money." We weren't
being paid by ABPC, we were paid when we delivered.
So Tony said "Why don't you go and do some television,
earn some money and then we'll get back together
and in the meantime I'll try and come up with a few
ideas." So we said "Right." We went to Tom Sloane
the BBC man and he said "What do you want to do?"
And we said "We want to write a series for Frankie
Howerd." and he said "NO WAY. He's finished, he's
dead". This is 1961/62. He said "No, I'll tell you what.
I've got a series - I've got a title which I've had for
a long time called Comedy Playhouse and I've never
used the title. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll give
you 10 half hours called Comedy Playhouse and you
can do what you like in those. You can be in them,
you can direct them - do what you like, use situations,
do sketches, whatever you like. Just give me 10
shows." So Ray and I thought "Oooh, this is great!"
Digger: Kids in a sweet shop, Yeah?
Alan: Oh, absolutely. So we decided to write 10
'plays'.
Digger: I can remember the music to that even
though I was very young!
Alan: ( Hums the tune Da, da, da ,da, da, da..... )
Anyway, number 4 turned out to be Steptoe and Son.
So when Tony was ready to do another film we said
"Well at the moment Tony we can't do it 'cos we're
doing the Steptoe and Son series." He said "Alright,
don't worry, I'll sort it out......" Anyway, to cut a
long story short he went away and did a film with
Philip Oakes which was The Punch and Judy Man.
And in the meantime he decided to do television
on ITV and we were asked to write his ITV series and
we said "We can't, we're in the middle of doing
Steptoe." And it had taken over our lives.
And we never worked with him again, but the idea
that he got rid of us is not true.
Digger: Well, hopefully we can dispel that myth
here on the internet once and for all.
Alan: Yes, I mean he wasn't worried about getting
rid of us or not working with us because he thought
he could manage with anybody. That was where he
made his mistake. By this time he wasn't learning any
lines and his performance had gone downhill.
Digger: 'Cos he HAD asked for Sid to be
removed from the show.
Alan: Well, we ALL agreed, Ray and Tony and I
agreed with that 'cos it was becoming - Hancock's
Half Hour was becoming a double act - Hancock and
James. It was never intended to be that, it was
turning into Laurel and Hardy where everywhere
Tony went people shouted "Where's Sid?" you
know. He didn't want this. He thought for the
future he had to break away from it. And Ray and
I agreed with him. Because what people don't
remember is that Sid had a career outside of
Hancock's Half Hour. He made about 10 films a year.
Digger: He's got an incredible list of films when
I look back on it.
Alan: Oh, he was 'Mr. One Take James!!!' He did
everything
in one take and so was highly sought after and highly
paid. Because he used to save them money in the long run.
He had this long, big career outside whereas Tony only
had Hancock's Half Hour. So we wrote the last series
of Hancock without Sid and it contains probably some
of the most remembered - The Blood Donor, The
Radio Ham, The Lift - they were all without Sid.
Digger: What are your happiest memories
of Tony and Sid?
Alan: Well, I mean doing the actual shows. During
its peak,
the read-throughs - they were both enormous laughers
and Kenneth Williams and Bill Kerr also big laughers.
If we gave them a really funny script that really
tickled them the four of them would be rolling
around the floor at read-throughs. And under the table
crying with laughter! And you're sitting there
having written this thinking "Oooh!....."
Digger: Sounds great! And getting paid for it as
well!!
Alan: And getting paid for it yeah!
Digger: Tony had this strange way of delivering some
of his lines in front of the camera and there were
rumours about him reading cue cards - was that true?
Alan: Well, he only read cue cards at the end of
his career. He didn't use them until The Blood Donor.
Because he had a car accident - he never drove but his
wife was driving and they crashed and he got concussion
and he was 2 days off rehearsals and he hadn't learnt
the lines and the BBC had the choice of canceling
the show or putting up the tele-prompters which
they did. And he read everything and he thought
"Christ! This is easy! I don't have to learn anything
anymore." And he didn't. And unfortunately,
it shows in his subsequent performances. Because
also what happened was he went more on the bottle
now he didn't have to work so hard and he gradually
lost his facial responses and reactions and his face
became a bit of a mask. But most of the days we
were working with him he wasn't reading, he was
reacting and it was wonderful.
Digger: What was the inspiration for Steptoe and Son?
Harry H. Corbett and Wilfrid Brambell - Harold and
Albert Steptoe
Alan: Um. Desperation! ( Digger laughs loudly! )
We'd
come to a bit of a block on this new series a bit
like with 'Have You Ever Wondered?'
Digger: Are there any others from that 10
that stand out?
Alan: None that became series, no. We'd done 3 of
these
things - you earlier made a comment that it's like being
in a Sweetshop. Which it is, but it causes its own
problems. When you're not restricted - when the
world is your oyster, you think "What shall we do?"
You've got too much choice. When you are restricted
to a show that consists of Tony, Sid, Bill, you know
what you're doing.....
Digger: Do you re-use any of the stuff that was in
the
others? - if there's a really funny line or situation
or whatever.....
Alan: Not often.
Digger: Do they get thrown away?
Alan: It has been known to re-use them but one tried
not to repeat oneself.
Digger: But if it hasn't been broadcast........
Alan: Oh, if it hasn't been broadcast, yeah always,
never throw anything away.
Digger: Good! ( Laughs )
Alan: I see what you mean! If we didn't use it we
would
keep it in a box and often we'd later come to subjects
that way. Half ideas which we couldn't develop we'd
write down and keep and before we started the next
one we'd go through all our half ideas to see if it
gave us any inspiration.
Digger: Did you keep any note-books around?
Alan: No, just sheets of foolscap for notes. And
sometimes
we'd take two half ideas and weld them into one
full idea! That sometimes happened "Ah, I know!".....
"Yeah, that works!"
Digger: Like Sergeant Pepper and A Day In The Life.
Alan: Yes! That used to work occasionally.
Digger: Did you have specific requirements for
Wilfrid
Brambell and Harry H. Corbett?
Alan: No, no! They were actors. They were trained.
They just do what they're given. Neither of them
asked us to change a line or.....
Digger: How different were they from the
characters they played?
Alan: Well, in Wilfrid's case, totally, totally.
Unrecognisable. Wilfrid Brambell off stage was
an extremely well-spoken, beautifully dressed,
immaculate, spotless man. Shined shoes, razor sharp
trousers, Homburg hat, walking stick, well-read,
beautifully spoken - well modulated voice. Harry
was much much closer to his persona. The only thing
that changed was his dress - not to any great
extent you know.
Digger: Can you see any similarities between their
characters and the ones that Sid and Tony played?
Alan: Inasmuch as one was a Philistine and one was
the one with all the hopes of the world on his
shoulders. The Steptoe characters were an
extension of the Hancock characters. The only thing
about Steptoe is by its very nature - being a
more dramatic series - you could take subjects
that you couldn't do with Hancock. I mean you couldn't
have a girl turn up on Hancock's door-step who was
8 months pregnant and claim that he's the father.
Tony was a comedian and it doesn't work with comedians.
Digger: So there was a lot more scope.
Alan: A lot more scope for more drama and to dig
deeper into the characters.
Digger: Did Leonard Rossiter appear in one of those?
Alan: He appeared in 2. He was an escaped convict in
one of the best episodes.
Digger: I enjoyed that one.
Alan: It was called The Desperate Hours.
Digger: It was almost like an American movie
script....
Alan: Well it was BASED on an American movie
called The Desperate Hours!
Digger: ( Light bulb goes on in Digger's head )
Ahhh!!!! ( Digger laughs )
Alan: That movie starred Frederick March and
Humphrey
Bogart. And it was the same situation inasmuch as
escaped convicts took over the house. That was the
only similarity between them.
Digger: Did you get a bill from the studios?
Alan: No, you can't copyright an idea. You can't
copyright the idea of 2 convicts breaking into
a house - you could say that happens hundreds of
times all over the world. We didn't copy the film
- it was a PASTICHE. We did it with Hancock
with Twelve Angry Men.
Digger: Oh yes! That was brilliant.
Alan: We did it with The Wrong Man which was also
based on the film - just put Hancock into the same
situation. That's perfectly acceptable and permissible.
Not plagiarism, where you use the whole thing and
call it something else and pretend it's different.
Digger: What are your favourite episodes from Steptoe?
Alan: Steptoe - The Desperate Hours.... one called
Oh
What A Beautiful Mourning. I always liked and
bits and pieces of lines.
Digger: There's one Hancock episode I particularly
liked where he's up for local election and he's
in the hall with a handful of people in the audience
and he's being self-important and asks for questions
from the floor. A chap asks a really long and detailed
one about fiscal policy which bemuses Hancock totally
and he says "Sir, this is no time for trivial questions."
Alan: ( Laughs ) Yeah.
Digger: Who came up with that?!!!
Alan: Oh, I can't tell you. We used to write
everything
together and to pick out lines forty years later........
Digger: That's one of my favourites, definitely.
Alan: One of my favourite lines in Steptoe was with
Raymond Huntley who was a psychiatrist who had
a breast fetish and all these questions related to
breasts and their size. "Did you mother have large
breasts?" And so on. And Harry had been embarrassed
about the questions. And Huntley said "Tell me,
as a child were you breastfed?" And Harry says
"Well, yeah. As it happens. Well, we couldn't afford
proper milk!" ( Digger laughs )
Digger: They developed into gigantic characters. Did
it
become harder as time went on?
Alan: No, in a way it became easier. Funnily enough
with Steptoe it was done in 2 tranches - we did 4
series and finished thinking that was the end and Ray
and I went to Hollywood a couple of times and
our career changed. Then we came back in '69 and
weren't quite sure what to do next and the BBC
got in touch with us and said "Have you got any
ideas for a new series?" And we were chatting
away with them and suddenly they said "What
about bringing Steptoe back? They're still around."
And we said "Yeah, that's not a bad idea."
Digger: And you had colour then as well.
Alan: And we had colour. And so we started again
with Steptoe after 4 years and probably the last
batch were as good if not better than the first batch.
Digger: I think they're the ones I remember.
Alan: And it was very enjoyable. Towards the end
one was in danger of repeating oneself and the old
man was getting a bit tired and it was all getting
a bit fraught in rehearsals and that. Harry was
getting a bit impatient and the writing was on the
wall so we decided to pack it in. But we did 8 series.....
Digger: It's not a bad run, is it? Not a bad run.
There's also this theory about comedy being a
really powerful medium. That certainly
Harold Wilson had That Was The Week
That Was stopped.......
Alan: He did, yeah.
Digger: ..... And he asked for Steptoe to be
re-scheduled.
Alan: Absolutely.
Digger: Why is comedy so powerful?
Alan: Apart from soaps, it's certainly the biggest
ratings-getter in the country. Funnily enough on
television particularly the most popular shows
are soaps and comedies but in the Oscars and the
Emmy's very seldom does a comedy win.
Digger: There's a sort of snobbishness there,
isn't there?
Alan: One thinks that maybe artistically drama
gets all the Kudos but popularly it's comedy.
Digger: Well that's a good observation.
Alan: Yeah, although these days most of the big
film money is on action and not comedy.
Digger: Comedy films went through the doldrums in
the early 70s I would say. Wouldn't you agree?
Alan: Oh yeah, yeah, well it's a totally different
medium. We found the fact that you can do successful
TV doesn't necessarily mean you can crack the film.
You're talking about an hour and forty
minutes construction.......
Digger: And they seem to make the mistake of
- if it was Steptoe or Are You Being Served or
whatever they would say "Right, you're going
on holiday".....
Alan: Yeah, yeah.
Harry H. Corbett
Digger: .... and they'd take it out of the situation,
bring in new characters and so on.
Alan: Yeah. You can't just do an hour and
a half in a junkyard.
Digger: So why was Steptoe set in Shepherd's Bush?
Alan: Well that's where so many junkmen were!
Digger: Oh, is that right? I thought it was 'cos
it was near the BBC!
Alan: Around there - and the East End of course
( mumbles ) but we didn't want to go all the way
down the East End! And around Wandsworth there
were a hell of a lot of rag and bone men in the old
days. In Shepherd's Bush it was under where the
flyover is now, you know.
Digger: 'Cos you had Alf Garnett on the other side
in the East End so that balanced it out nicely.
Alan: That's right. John came from that
part of the world.
Digger: How did you get on with John?
Alan: John Speight? Yeah, we knew him. Ray and
I got him his first job in '54 writing a show called
Ross and Ray, Edmundo Ross and Ray Ellington.
Digger: I've heard of them.
Alan: It was musical but John did the little twenty
minute's worth of one-liners.
Digger: What did the swinging sixties mean to you?
Alan: Nothing!!! ( Both laugh )
Digger: ( Laughs ) 'Cos you were stuck in a room.
Alan: Absolutely right! Stuck in a room.
Digger: Didn't you get any of the 'glam'?
Alan: No, not really! I mean, I'm sure that out
there
in the streets it was quite fun but we were stuck
in the office all the time.
Digger: But didn't you have to experience some
of it to write about it?
Alan: No, we used to refer to it without actually
having taken part in it. But in those days, I suppose
the fifties and sixties we were tied-down. I suppose
the seventies were easier from that point of view. But
the seventies are now considered naff aren't they?
Digger: Well, a little bit yes, but it will turn
round.
Alan: The fashions and the hairstyles.
Digger: I HAD to wear some of those!
Alan: The flairs and so on.
Digger: I think the sixties were more stylish from
that point of view.
Alan: Yeah, the sixties were all tight buttoned
jackets
like The Beatles used to wear. I think the swinging
sixties came about because the pill came out and nobody
had to worry about getting pregnant.
Digger: And there's you two locked away in a
room and married!
Alan: And envying everybody else! ( Digger laughs )
Too busy building our careers.
Digger: Are you nostalgic or do you prefer
looking forward?
Alan: What do they say? Nostalgia ain't what it used
to be. No, I'm quite nostalgic. The trouble with nostalgia
is you've got to have a good memory haven't you?
Digger: And you haven't?
Alan: Well....... up to a point. It's
selective. I've got a
good memory about the business but with other things......
"Oooh, I'd forgotten all about that." I'm a great
believer in enjoying what you've done and the times,
taking pleasure from it. I'm not one of these people
who ..... I always think it's a bit pretentious these people
who after they've done something say they never
look at it again. The implication being that it comes so
easy to them. That's the only statement I've ever
been annoyed by from Woody Allen who is my total
idol - I think he's absolutely wonderful, his talent, his
ability and his...... his, what's the word? His....
the extent of his production............
Digger: His versatility?
Alan: Versatility. And productivity.
Digger: ( Laughs ) Here's me telling a man of words!.........
Alan: And I admire him immensely, but when he was
doing that interview on Frame By Frame and he refused
to look at any of the stuff. He said "I never look at any
of my own work." And I found that a bit off. That is
absolutely over the top.
Digger: That's not fair because people want to hear him
discuss it. That's why he's there.
Alan: Why make films? Just put them out live so
nobody
can ever see them again!
Digger: Any creative person should be able to look
back on their work and say "That was good and that
was bad." ..... So what have been yours and Ray's
greatest accomplishments then?
Alan: Well....... Hancock's Half Hour and
Steptoe and Son!!!!
Digger: Fair enough ( both laugh )
Alan: They're the things that if we're remembered
we'll be remembered for.
Digger: And that's a good thing, isn't it? That writers
have now got to the status that they're
recognised names.
Alan: Yes, we're working in a medium that is.....
here today and gone tomorrow .... I can't think
of the word for it.........
Digger: Fleeting!
Alan: Eh?
Digger: Fleeting!
Alan: Fleeting sounds...... very good. Yes.
Digger: Fickle!
Alan: It's a fickle, fleeting thing. So if you can see...
I mean stuff that Ray and I wrote forty years ago
is still remembered which is very flattering
and very pleasing.....
Digger: Not just remembered actually, new
people are enjoying it.
Alan: Absolutely. And if it's remembered in another
fifty years time that will be wonderful. Mind you,
we won't be here ... ( Digger chuckles ) ........to realise
it but that will be great. But, I think with the sort of
work that we're doing that becomes very difficult.
Digger: I think you're guaranteed a
certain immortality.
Alan: Well, you see Laurel & Hardy and W.C. Fields.......
Digger: No, well I think you're up there with the
greats, The Goons, The Pythons - your names are there.
Alan: Well....... that's very pleasing for 2
lads who
met in a sanatorium and thought that they were
going to die there. It's good from that point of view.
Digger: What do you think that you and Ray would
be doing if you weren't writers?
Alan: Well....... I'd probably have retired from a
shipping office, I suspect. Ray, I don't know. Ray
didn't have a job really, he was a clerk at the
TGWU and then taken ill at sixteen so he had no career.
My mother wanted me to be a civil servant - I didn't.
And whether I would have taken the exams or
not I don't know.
Digger: What did you think of Paul Merton's
remakes of your scripts?
Alan: I think he had a good go at them but he
suffered
- it was enjoyable to do and Paul worked very hard
on them and he was a lovely bloke to work with.....
but they weren't an out and out success. He suffered
from 2 problems. Firstly being compared with Tony,
which is why in the second series we did hardly any
scripts we'd written for Tony and secondly Paul wasn't
an actor. He improved as the series went on.
Digger: He did, yes.
Alan: It's a totally different thing, you've got to
learn lines. And when you're more concerned with
what you're gonna say than the way you're gonna
say it, it becomes....
Digger: He is very spontaneous when he does his act.
Alan: He had to learn to act, in a way. Reeves and
Mortimer suffered from the same thing with that.
You could see them acting. Whereas Alan Davies has
made the transition - he's probably a better actor
than he is a comedian.
Digger: And Paul Merton's ex-missus as well.
Alan: Well Caroline is more of an actress anyway.
I mean Paul could do it if he concentrated or devoted
himself to being an actor but there's no reason why
he should. What he does at the moment is better -
there's loads of actors about but not too many........
Digger: Paul Mertons?
Alan:.......Yes, Paul Mertons!
Digger: How would you describe the state
of British comedy?
Alan: Yeah, it's as much as it ever was, good and
bad.
Digger: Healthy?
Alan: Yeah, I think so. I think there are a lot of
good
writers coming through. Just a question of - the problem
at the moment is that they're trying to copy the
Americans too much - obsessed with that.
Digger: It always happens a few years later
over here, doesn't it?
Alan: I think that might be a mistake because
America has far bigger resources than we have.
Every writer on an American show probably
takes home a minimum of $1 million a year and
you've got twelve writers on Frasier or Friends.
All earning that. The stars getting a million per episode.
So they've got the resources and they're all young,
straight out of university. Doing a couple of years
flogging themselves to death on the show, becoming very
rich in the process and drifting into other..... but we
don't have the resources to do that. I think we might
be mistaken going in that direction.
Digger: I see. Well.... it's been great talking to you Alan.
Alan: We've been on for about an hour and
thirty-five minutes!
Digger: I didn't want to tie you up for too long, but
it's been great talking to you.
Alan: Well I hope that you've got what you wanted.
Me rambling along!
Digger: No, not at all. It's been very interesting and
I learnt a lot. I tried comedy writing and
gave it up in the end.
Alan: Difficult, isn't it?
Digger: Of course, you and Ray never got rejected
did you, is that right?
Alan: When we started we were lucky as there weren't
many of us and we have never been rejected which
is very, very rare. These days everybody gets
rejected and we keep telling them to keep trying.
There are so many people trying to get in now.
Digger: John Sullivan did and he just had that resolve........
Alan: You know, Frank Muir and Dennis Norden were
officially comedy advisers to the BBC and they
went to America on a trip and at some reception
they met Neil Simon of...........( Laughs ) Neil Simon
fame! They were chatting and Neil Simon said "So
what do you do?" and they said "We're comedy
advisers to the BBC and he said "What? You mean
YOU KNOW?!!!!!" And William Goldman said
"In Hollywood nobody knows anything!" People can do
it but they don't know. I refuse to read other people's
scripts and pass judgement on them.
Digger: I made the mistake of sending my scripts on
to Spike Milligan and Stephen Fry. They were great -
Spike was very friendly but said "Don't send it to
me or to other writers or performers. Send it to the
agents and the production companies. They're the
only ones. That was a good bit of advice. Stephen Fry
said some really positive things about my script, even
though it was probably crap ( laughs ). People like
you would be spending all their days looking at
other peoples scripts.
Alan: At the BBC people are paid to do it. But
you've
no guarantee that they know what they're talking about.
Digger: I know what you mean. I've even had other
people's scripts sent back with mine and mine covered
in fingerprints, bit of people's dinners and God knows
what! So you can't send them out to somebody else.
Alan: I've read pages of comments on people's
scripts and the comments themselves are almost
meaningless. They have techniques of rejection and
I'm sure that some of them don't know what they're
talking about. But these are the people and what
else can you do? Unless you're a multi-millionaire
and produce your own show and say "Here you are!
There it is"
Digger: Are you busy these days?
Alan: Not really. I try not to be anyway.
Digger: Has the O.B.E changed your life?
Alan: No!!! Not really, in fact not at all.
Digger: Was it The Queen or Tony Blair
who awarded it?
Alan: I don't know, but the letter came from
Tony Blair's office.
Digger: Long overdue!
Alan: That's EXACTLY what Prince Charles said.
Exactly what he said.
Digger: That's one good thing about the Royals.
They have got a sense of humour.
Alan: "You should have had this years ago in my
opinion." That's what he said.
Digger: Do you think he had any influence in it?
Alan: No. I don't think they get involved.
Digger: Well, once again Alan, thanks very much.
I'll send you the interview when it's printed up
for you to give it the green light.
Alan: Okay David. Bye for now.
Thanks Alan. Digger, September 2000
www.galtonandsimpson.com
Alan Simpson.
This page layout and
content is the intellectual property of www.retrosellers.com and cannot be reproduced without express
permission.
If we have inadvertently used any image on this web site which is
in copyright and for which we, or our retailers on our behalf, do not have permission for
use, please contact us so that we can rectify the situation immediately. Images in this
article are, to the best of our knowledge, either in the public domain or copyrighted
where indicated.
|
